I dedicated my entire second season to Dads as they are a key part of the puzzle when it comes to gender equity. So when I came across some research on Dads that was entitled: “Passenger parenting, role conflict and guilt: the transition to parenthood from new and experienced fathers” - I got very excited.

And that is where Norma Barrett enters - Norma is one of the co-authors of this research and I was so lucky to get time with her to discuss her findings. Originally from Cork in Ireland, she now lives in Australia and is a lecturer in Public Health and Health Promotion at Deakin University.

Norma’s conversation raises the question of how we can facilitate healthy families, when we focus only on the mother’s health. One in ten dads suffer from post natel depression in Australia. Dads suffer too and it is not a zero sum game. We can look after both parents.

This conversation is good for couples who are about to become parents, those who are about to become parents again or for those who are interested in how our system impacts on dads. It leaves us with the question - what would our society look like if we looked after fathers?

We speak about:

• The power of reflections from dads after they transitioned to parenthood.
• Confusion around their roles - dads know that things are going to change but they never really knew how.
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• One of the most striking outcomes from the research was how the fathers wanted to talk about the impact on their mental health and their partner’s mental health.
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• How Dads prioritise their partner’s needs or preferences before them - they see themselves as the support person and it is hard for them to have their own needs - “not wanting to be an added burden”.
• How Dads can feel resistance when they try to take a different role at home or at work - and that passenger parenting was safer for them - they felt they were not able to take the wheel.
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• How roles between parents can emerge organically rather than be active decisions. And that we need to make decisions on parental leave before we even know what it will feel like to be a Dad.
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• Caring about what happens to Dads is not about forgetting about caring for Mums.
• It is important to revisit conversations on what Dads need - at work and at home - again and again. And this can be tricky.
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• Using a magic wand for Dads to help them feel safe in having conversations, for Dads to feel prepared, for Dads to not feel ranked and to be recognised as a parent and not a secondary parent.

Resources Discussed

• Passenger parenting, role conflict and guilt: the transition to parenthood from new and experienced fathers
• Fair Play by Eve Rodsky

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.

Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.

As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part