In part two of my conversation with Dame Anne Salmond, we go deeper - into wānanga (the meeting of ideas), into te ao Māori (Māori worldview), and into the kind of thinking that could help us live better together.

Dame Anne speaks about her decades-long relationship with her Māori mentors, Eruera and Amiria Stirling, and how those relationships rewired her understanding of the world. We talk about what it means to live in a relational way - and how te reo Māori doesn’t just name the world, it can reshape it. This kōrero makes space for where anthropology meets awe, and scholarship meets soul.

We also talk about tapu and mana, and how those concepts aren’t just beautiful - they are power filled. We discuss Te Tiriti o Waitangi, not as a document of rights and rules, but as a sacred gift exchange rooted in respect. We touch on binary thinking, politics, creativity, and the purpose of universities - and why the best ideas are born in spaces where words can be blown about by the wind and shone on by the sun.

This conversation is a gift. It’s a call back to care, and forward into complexity, beauty, and balance.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Support the show: https://greyareas.nz/support