Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the 1984/85 season that changed English football, with Part One focussing on the numerous fan violence incidents then the tragedy of the Bradford fire as 56 fans lost their lives.

Today, in part two, Tony Evans, former sports editor at The Times and author of 'Two Tribes' and 'Far Foreign Land' joins the show to talk about Heysel.

In this episode, Tony Evans shares his harrowing experiences and poignant reflections on the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985, when 39 football fans tragically lost their lives during the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus. The discussion covers the chaotic events leading up to the disaster, the atmosphere in Brussels, and the aftermath, both immediate and long-term, for football and fan culture.

Don't miss this in-depth exploration of one of the darkest days in football history.

00:00 Introducing the Podcast and Special Guest Tony Evans

02:15 Liverpool in 1985: A City and Club in Turmoil

02:30 The Violent Year: Football and Social Unrest

05:09 The Day of the Heysel Disaster: Personal Accounts

07:46 Chaos in Brussels: The Build-Up to Tragedy

16:57 The Collapse: Mismanagement and Miscommunication

27:45 The Aftermath: Reactions and Reflections

30:35 The Aftermath of the Tragedy

31:43 Personal Recollections and Impact

32:26 Documentary Insights and Victim Stories

34:56 Chaos and Confusion at the Stadium

38:25 The Decision to Continue the Game

49:08 Reflections on Fan Behaviour and Consequences

51:27 The Broader Context and Political Reactions

53:48 Long-term Changes in Football Culture

58:38 Concluding Thoughts on the Tragedy

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Welcome to It Was When It Was, the football history podcast.

This week we're focussing on the 1984-85 footballing season - arguably the bleakest time in English football history - that changed the game forever.

Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin the first of two episodes covering the violence, tragedy, and upheaval of this period and the wider context of football hooliganism in the first half, whilst the second half of part one pays tribute to the horrific Bradford Fire that claimed 56 lives 40 years ago.

Explore gripping firsthand accounts, the reactions of key figures, and the societal and institutional issues that plagued the sport, leading to safety measures and ultimately, a transformation in football culture.

Join us on Friday as we are joined by Tony Evans to talk about the Heysel tragedy that happened at the end of May in 1985.

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

01:09 Reflecting on the 1984-85 Season

02:47 The Bradford Fire Tragedy

04:00 Football's Decrepit Stadiums

06:31 Chelsea vs. Sunderland: Milk Cup Semi-Final Chaos

12:36 Luton vs. Millwall: FA Cup Violence

26:35 Birmingham vs. Leeds: Championship Decider Mayhem

29:10 Fans Fight Back and Prolonged Chaos

30:52 Medieval Fortress and Perimeter Fences

31:59 Racism and Aggression in Football Culture

33:15 Introduction to the Bradford Fire

35:04 The Start of the Fire and Initial Reactions

36:16 Rapid Escalation and Desperate Attempts to Escape

38:20 Heartbreaking Personal Accounts and Immediate Aftermath

47:16 Investigations and Controversies

50:57 Negligence and Legal Consequences

57:30 Broader Implications and Future Changes

59:24 Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast! Join co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they welcome special guest Richard Hough, author of 'Verona Capone, the Miracle of 85'. In this episode, Richard delves into the extraordinary story of Hellas Verona's incredible 1984-85 Serie A title win. From the chaotic Italian football landscape of the 1980s, managerial masterstrokes, and key foreign signings, to the unforgettable moments and lasting impact on the city of Verona, this episode is a deep dive into one of football's most romantic underdog stories. Join us as we explore how a small provincial team conquered giants like AC Milan and Juventus to achieve an unexpected and historic league victory.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:02 Setting the Scene: 1980s Italian Football

02:21 Verona's Rise to Glory

03:28 Economic and Social Context

05:08 Key Players and Strategic Moves

12:15 Tactical Insights and Coaching Philosophy

15:15 Foreign Players and Their Impact

22:55 The Perfect Season Opener

25:04 The Opening Goal and Season Kickoff

25:29 Verona's Iconic Moments and Key Players

30:05 The Turning Point in the Season

33:01 The Final Stretch to the Title

40:42 Celebrations and Legacy

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

It’s FA Cup final week, with Manchester City set to take on Crystal Palace at Wembley. In this episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the dramatic story of Palace’s remarkable run to the 1990 FA Cup Final.

Just months after a crushing 9-0 defeat to Liverpool, Crystal Palace stunned the same side in a sensational 4-3 semi-final — a match still regarded as one of the greatest in FA Cup history. That victory set up a final against Sir Alex Ferguson’s Manchester United, who, at the time, were still chasing their first trophy under his management.

Today, we delve into where Crystal Palace stood as a club in 1990, explore their tactical shifts, highlight standout performances — especially the impact of Ian Wright — and examine Manchester United’s situation under Ferguson, including the pivotal moments that led to his first silverware with the club. We also examine whether Palace could shock Manchester City and finally win the FA Cup for the first time in their history.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

02:23 Crystal Palace's Journey to the Semis

03:37 Televised Semifinals and Hillsborough's Impact

11:55 Crystal Palace's Tactical Shift

15:17 The Dramatic Semifinal Match

20:39 Crystal Palace's Historic FA Cup Final

21:06 Manchester United's Journey to the 1990 FA Cup Final

25:55 Ian Wright's Miraculous Comeback

28:35 The Replay and Ferguson's First Trophy

31:56 Comparing Crystal Palace Eras

36:05 Can Crystal Palace Upset Manchester City?

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look back on the rich history of Goodison Park, Everton's storied home ground, as it approaches its final days.

From setting the history into the building of the iconic stadium to picking out unforgettable matches to legendary players, relive iconic moments such as Dixie Dean's record-setting 60 goals in one season, Eusebio's praise at the 1966 World Cup, the famous 1994 relegation battle against Wimbledon and Wayne Rooney's spectacular goal against Arsenal.

Join us as we celebrate the legacy of one of England's most beloved football stadiums.

What's your favourite Goodison Park memory? Get in touch on @ItWasPod on X.

Please don't forget to leave a review and recommend to your friends!

00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks

00:33 The Significance of Goodison Park

01:44 Architectural and Historical Insights

04:32 Memorable Matches and Moments

07:11 Archibald Leitch's Legacy

26:15 Everton's last day survival in 1994 and Match-Fixing Scandal

29:33 The1966 World Cup

40:34 Dixie Dean's 60th Goal of the season

47:27 Wayne Rooney's Stunning Debut Goal

49:44 Farewell to Goodison Park

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak of the remarkable journey of Harry Kane, who recently clinched the Bundesliga title with Bayern Munich; the first trophy in his career.

Recounting his early days at Arsenal youth, to multiple rejections, and loan spells that nearly derailed his career, the episode highlights Kane’s undeterred determination and resilience. Discover how pivotal moments and key influences, such as Mauricio Pochettino and a documentary on Tom Brady, transformed him into one of football’s greatest strikers.

We end with a quiz, as Rob tests Jonathan's knowledge of British and Irish players who won major league titles abroad!

00:00 Introduction: A Childhood Memory

00:35 The Arsenal Release: A Turning Point

00:43 Celebrating Harry Kane's Achievements

01:02 The Early Struggles and Resilience

02:36 Harry Kane's Background and Family

03:06 Youth Football Journey

05:38 Challenges and Determination

14:27 Loan Spells and Growth

18:40 Millwall Experience and Growing Up

21:34 Norwich Loan: A Tough Period

27:16 Unexpected Laughter and Player Comparisons

28:02 Struggles at Leicester City

29:36 Turning Point: The Tom Brady Inspiration

31:13 Breakthrough Under Sherwood

32:33 Skepticism and Early Success

35:04 Pochettino's Influence and Physical Transformation

38:36 Near Misses and Final Disappointments

43:12 Legacy and Comparisons with Other Greats

47:43 Quiz on British and Irish Players Abroad

52:59 Conclusion and Reflections on Harry Kane's Career

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

In this week’s episode, we turn our attention to Liverpool’s extraordinary journey through their history, culminating in Arne Slot’s Premier League title-winning side.

Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the club’s legacy from its early 20th-century triumphs to modern-day glory.

They explore the tactical revolutions under legendary managers like Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley, the brilliance of iconic players in Kenny Dalglish and Ian Rush, and the resurgence under Jürgen Klopp. The episode also highlights how Arne Slot has carried that legacy forward, building on the foundations laid by his predecessors.

Where does the 2024/25 Liverpool title winners rank amongst the club's greatest ever teams? Get in touch with @ItWasPod on X to let us know!

00:00 Introduction to Liverpool's Journey

01:42 Early Liverpool Champions: 1901-1923

02:42 The Impact of Tom Watson

06:24 Liverpool's Defensive Strengths

07:46 Post-War Liverpool: Nutrition and Success

08:46 The Rise of Billy Liddell

10:17 Jack Balmer's Unlikely Heroics

15:20 Liverpool's First Five Titles

16:34 Bill Shankly's Legacy

20:55 Bob Paisley's Tactical Brilliance

26:18 Liverpool's Dominance in the Late 70s

27:12 Liverpool's Dominant Back Four

27:52 Dalglish vs. Keegan: Who's Better?

29:08 The Greatest Liverpool Side of All Time?

29:54 European Cup Draw and Unfortunate Knockout

33:29 Transition to the Kenny Dalglish Era

37:53 Impact of Hillsborough and the 1989 Season

41:55 Liverpool's Modern Era and Klopp's Influence

46:46 Future Prospects and Final Thoughts

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield.

Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing days, his reputation as a tactician, and his impressive managerial stints that led him to win the Eredivisie with Feyenoord and now the Premier League with Liverpool.

On Friday, Jonathan and Rob will assess where Slot's Liverpool title winners sit in Liverpool's glorious history.

00:00 Introduction: A Coach's Son

00:40 Early Life and Background of Arne Slot

01:26 The Dutch Football Culture

03:01 Influence of Johan Cruyff and Total Football

05:02 Arne Slot's Youth and Early Football Education

07:11 Professional Career Beginnings

13:40 Tactical Innovations and Coaching Philosophy

21:58 The Early Coaching Journey of Arne Slot

23:14 Challenges and Successes at Cambuur

25:56 Influence of Pep Guardiola and Data Analytics

29:10 Rise at AZ Alkmaar

34:43 Success at Feyenoord and Coaching Style

43:45 Legacy and Future Prospects

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