L&D and customer education are similar, but not the same. There is a lot L&D can learn from this parallel profession. In this episode, Debbie Smith joins Jess Almlie to reveal the secrets of successful customer education that L&D should adopt as their own. They discuss why learners should feel empowered, not controlled whether or not those learners are external customers. As well as how L&D can adopt the data-driven, outcome-focused mindset that customer education requires.

Jess and Debbie discuss

• The top priorities of customer education vs. L&D.
• The differences in designing for voluntary vs. captive audiences.
• Applying Mayer's 12 principles of multimedia design combined with cognitive load theory.
• Using adoption paired with company drivers and goals as measures for success.
• Tracking patterns of behavior change long term.
• Focusing on long-term business impact.

About Debbie Smith

Debbie is the Senior Director of Visier University and president of CEDMA (Customer Education Management Association). She is a Customer Education (CE) leader with extensive experience in CE strategy, certification, instructional design, eLearning design and development, customer experience, and project management. As a member of the CE community, she is a sought-after mentor and thought leader in the growth and evolution of the industry. She has led large and small teams at various SaaS companies and serves on a number of customer advisory boards. She has contributed to two books, multiple podcasts, and webinars. She is a frequent speaker at industry conferences.

Find and connect with Debbie Smith

• LinkedIn
• Website: Visier University
• Website: CEDMA
• DevLearn Conference 2025

Find and connect with Jess Almlie

• LinkedIn
• Website: jessalmlie.com
• L&D Must Change Newsletter
• Book: L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner

Additional Links from the Show

• Article: Mayer's 12 Principles of Multimedia Learning
• Article: Cognitive Load Theory and Instructional Design

Now Available! Jess's book, L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner, published by ATD Press, is now available for pre-order wherever books are sold! To learn more and be the first to get behind-the-scenes updates, early sneak peeks, and join the virtual launch party, join Jess's email list! You'll get the L&D Must Change newsletter delivered to your inbox weekly as well as special updates on the book when available. Click here to join!

Too often, training misses the mark because it skips the most important step. In this episode of L&D Must Change, Candice Mitchell joins Jess Almlie to unpack why context should always come before content in L&D. Candice shares practical strategies for uncovering business needs, building credibility, and shifting away from the traditional order-taker mindset. From gathering macro trends to asking the right stakeholder questions, she illustrates how deeper context leads to faster and more relevant learning solutions. Tune in for a lively, honest conversation full of actionable insights and a few nerdy laughs along the way.

Jess and Candice discuss

• Flipping our ratio of context to content creation by spending more time understanding business context than creating the content.
• A diversified process to gather context in any organization.
• Overcoming time constraints with the stakeholder who doesn't want to allow for time to gather context.
• Reframing requests in business terms vs. L&D terms.
• How to demonstrate value through small wins and consistent communication.
• Avoiding common pitfalls when responding to training requests.

About Candice Mitchell

Candice Mitchell is the founder of Talent Development Nerds and the creator of the Talent Development Academy® which is a strategic learning program that helps L&D professionals become indispensable partners to the business. She’s a fractional Chief Learning Officer and trusted advisor to companies building capability from the ground up. Candice is known for cutting through the noise with practical, business-first advice and a healthy dose of tough love. Her work spans strategy, change, performance, and culture, and she’s on a mission to make L&D more impactful, more respected, and more energizing, for everyone involved.

Find and connect with Candice Mitchell

• Website: www.talentdevelopmentnerds.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/candicemitchelltdnerd/
• Instagram (so much fun!): https://www.instagram.com/candice_mitchell_msc/
• Podcast: Development Nerds – available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube link: https://open.spotify.com/show/56cZnQtmXloGpGcDt2McoP?si=d961aac2fadd412f
• YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/@candicemitchell.TDNerd
• Candice's Impact Toolkit: https://talentdevelopmentnerds.com/impact

Find and connect with Jess Almlie

• LinkedIn
• Website: jessalmlie.com
• L&D Must Change Newsletter
• Book: L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner

Coming Soon! Jess's book, L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner will be published by ATD Press later this year. To be the first to get behind-the-scenes updates, early sneak peeks, and join the virtual launch party, join Jess's email list! You'll get the L&D Must Change newsletter delivered to your inbox weekly as well as special updates on the book when available. Click here to join!

What happens when L&D professionals start thinking like marketers? In this episode, Jess Almlie talks with Mike Taylor and Bianca Baumann about how adopting a marketing mindset can transform learning experiences. From learner personas to emotional storytelling and irresistible content design, they share real-world strategies and small shifts with big impact. Discover how to connect more deeply with learners and elevate engagement through their new book, Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro.

Jess, Mike, and Bianca discuss

• The benefits of L&D adopting a marketer mindset
• How to apply key marketing concepts for L&D such as creating learner personas, developing learner journeys, and crafting emotionally resonant content.
• Using the SURE framework (Simple, Useful, Resonant, Easy to scan/process) when writing descriptions, designing content, and communicating with learners
• Small shifts in approach that lead to big impact on learner engagement and content effectiveness
• Leveraging marketing tools like platforms and analytics
• Using learners' subconscious decision making to drive outcomes

About Mike Taylor

With over two decades of experience as a learning consultant, Mike has been a driving force behind transformative instructional design and organizational performance. Known for his captivating speaking style and influential newsletter, Mike is dedicated to making learning more engaging, accessible, and effective. As a faculty member in Franklin University's Graduate Instructional Design and Technology program, he bridges the gap between academic theory and real-world practice, equipping future learning professionals with the skills to excel in today's dynamic landscape. Mike's innovative approach and infectious passion are redefining the way we think about learning.

About Bianca Baumann

Bianca Baumann is a seasoned L&D strategist with more than 15 years of experience in L&D. She is passionate about consulting on effective, new solutions to serve learners’ needs. She has helped dozens of organizations improve their onboarding and reskilling programs. Baumann speaks at international conferences and is a facilitator at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education.

Find and connect with Mike Taylor and Bianca Baumann

• Mike Taylor LinkedIn
• Bianca Baumann LinkedIn
• Mike Taylor's Website and Newsletter: https://mike-taylor.org/
• Bianca Baumann Website: https://www.biancabaumann.com/
• Think Like a Marketer Website: https://trainlikeamarketer.com/
• Book: Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro

Find and connect with Jess Almlie

• LinkedIn
• Website: jessalmlie.com
• L&D Must Change Newsletter

Coming Soon! Jess's book, L&D Order Taker No More! Become a Strategic Business Partner will be published by ATD Press later this year. To be the first to get behind-the-scenes updates, early sneak peeks, and join the virtual launch party, join Jess's email list! You'll get the L&D Must Change newsletter delivered to your inbox weekly as well as special updates on the book when available. Click here to join!