In this episode of The Changemakers, Dave is joined by David Wall, Creative Director at Tines and President of the Institute of Designers in Ireland.

David shares his unique career trajectory, moving from agency and independent studio practice to leading in-house brand design for a fast-growing tech company. He delves into the parallels between running a boutique studio and his current role at Tines, emphasising the ownership and learning opportunities inherent in both.

David also discusses what drew him to Tines – a workflow automation and AI orchestration platform – and how their brand messaging stands apart in the cybersecurity space by focusing on the positive outcomes of automation. We explore Tines' culture of empowering designers with significant autonomy, where collaboration means seeking meaningful input rather than permission, and how this fosters rapid progress and innovation. David also sheds light on the seamless integration between brand and product design at Tines, highlighting shared goals for design quality and the benefits of close proximity to product development. He underscores how design's value is deeply ingrained in Tines' leadership, evident from their earliest hires.

For agency creatives considering an in-house role, David offers practical advice on assessing organisational structure and ensuring design has a strong voice. Finally, he shares insights into his impactful work with the Institute of Designers in Ireland (IDI), where he champions design advocacy and policy.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

00:53 Guest Introduction: David Wall from Tines

01:12 Meeting at RSA Conference

01:42 David's Transition from Agency to In-House

02:06 Brand and Product Design Collaboration

06:06 David's Role and Responsibilities at Tines

12:25 The Importance of Autonomy in Design

19:11 Leadership and Design Culture at Tines

32:18 Advice for Designers Moving In-House

41:36 Involvement with the Institute of Designers in Ireland (IDI)

44:16 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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In this episode of The Changemakers, Dave chats with Rachel Gogel, a seasoned creative executive consultant. Having built brands at titans like The New York Times, Meta, and Airbnb, Rachel knows a thing or two about transforming brand from a 'nice-to-have' into a vital business engine, and dives into her diverse career journey, from her graphic design roots to her current role as a fractional design leader and educator.

For creative leaders, Rachel offers invaluable advice on getting brand taken seriously. She champions speaking the language of business, focusing on metrics like user retention and conversion rates rather than just aesthetics. And she passionately champions in-product brand experiences, explaining how a strong brand isn't just about aesthetics, but about creating seamless, intuitive interactions within the product itself.

Drawing on her experiences, Rachel shares how to speak the language of executives, connecting brand initiatives to tangible outcomes like user retention, conversion rates, and lifetime value. She also shares the story behind her recent SXSW London panel, "Crafting Magic: The Art of Product", featuring fellow design leaders from Dropbox, Slack and Anthropic.

The conversation also explores the unique brand approach at Airbnb, where design and brand are valued from the very top. Rachel explains how to scale brand across diverse organisations, stressing that strong relationships and clear roles trump rigid org charts. She tackles the tricky balance of maintaining consistency while allowing teams to move fast.

Finally, we get into practical tips for leaders navigating competing priorities, including internal education, piloting ideas, and the power of user research in validating branded moments. Ultimately, Rachel advocates a powerful mindset shift: moving beyond brand as decoration to brand as experience, recognising that product and brand are inseparable in the user's mind.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 Introduction and Welcome Rachel Gogel
• 01:52 Rachel's Diverse Career Journey and Fractional Leadership
• 06:50 SXSW London Panel: In-Product Brand Experiences
• 10:30 Advocating for Brand with Executive Teams
• 13:14 Brand as a Business Critical Function: Lessons from NYT & Meta
• 20:00 The Airbnb Approach to Brand and Design
• 26:22 Scaling Brand Across Organisations and Best Practices
• 34:10 Essential Qualities for Creative Leaders
• 44:30 Beyond Decoration: Brand as Experience

Send us a message if you enjoyed this episode

If you enjoy the chats then there are more ways to quench your thirst for creative inspiration in the world of B2B tech.

👉 Watch episodes on YouTube
👉 Follow us on LinkedIn for regular snippets in your feed
👉 Visit our website for more in-depth thinking on topics
👉 Subscribe to Beyond our monthly collection of insight, opinion and inspiration

And finally please rate our podcast on Apple if you enjoyed it!

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In this episode of The Changemakers, Dave welcomes back Melissa Rosenthal - marketer, media veteran, and now co-founder of Outlever - for a conversation that unpacks how companies can truly own their voice through thought leadership.

With experience leading creative at ClickUp, along with shaping the rise of media brands like BuzzFeed and Cheddar, Melissa brings a unique perspective on why traditional media models are no longer enough - and what brands should be doing instead.

She shares the story behind founding Outlever, a platform helping B2B companies transform into modern media hubs by amplifying subject matter experts, customers, and partners - not just executives. This isn’t about vanity publishing. It’s about scale, speed, and relevance. Melissa explains how AI-powered media listening, layered with editorial expertise, can surface the right angles, elevate authentic perspectives, and unlock a new kind of brand-building: one rooted in trust, timeliness, and community insight.

If your brand’s thought leadership strategy starts and ends with LinkedIn posts or recycled threat reports, this conversation is the wake-up call you need. Melissa dives into why most companies are still stuck in old playbooks, how to break out of them, and what it takes to create a differentiated voice in crowded markets - especially when budgets are tight and attention is scarcer than ever.

Whether you’re leading marketing at a tech company, building brand awareness in a crowded category, or rethinking your content strategy, this episode is full of practical insights and fresh thinking on how to turn thought leadership into a true business asset.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:34 Upcoming Trip and Recent Projects

01:17 Episode Focus: Thought Leadership in B2B

02:18 Guest Introduction: Melissa Rosenthal

04:32 Melissa's Journey and Founding Out Leave

13:14 The Role of AI in Thought Leadership

16:10 Trends and Insights from Out Leave's Platform

21:02 Challenges and Differentiation in Branding

24:54 Conclusion and Future Directions

Send us a message if you enjoyed this episode

If you enjoy the chats then there are more ways to quench your thirst for creative inspiration in the world of B2B tech.

👉 Watch episodes on YouTube
👉 Follow us on LinkedIn for regular snippets in your feed
👉 Visit our website for more in-depth thinking on topics
👉 Subscribe to Beyond our monthly collection of insight, opinion and inspiration

And finally please rate our podcast on Apple if you enjoyed it!

✌️