Nick Cohen and historian James Hawes discuss wide range of political topics, focusing primarily on British politics, Brexit, and the rise of right-wing populism. Discussions included the historical context and current state of the Conservative Party, the challenges faced by Labour and the SNP, and the potential long-term implications of demographic changes on political landscapes. James Hawes argues that only liberal populists can counter the threat posed by Nigel Farage and Reform.

Brexit's Long-Term Consequences and Failures

James and Nick discusses the long-term implications and failures of Brexit, highlighting how Farage and other Brexit advocates had been promoting the idea for decades. Both criticise the lack of accountability and the continued influence of Brexit supporters despite the project's evident failures. James expressed optimism for a pro-remain populist leader to challenge Brexit advocates directly, rather than relying on complex economic arguments. He also shared a conversation with a top UK insider predicting the UK's collapse by 2029 due to Keir Starmer's inability to address the mess left by the Tories & Brexit

The Tory Party pickle

James & Nick discuss the historical and current dire state of the Conservative Party, highlighting its long history of populism and sectarianism. They argue that the party's true nature is being revealed through its alignment with Farage and its anti-migrant stance, which James compares to 19th-century Tory behaviour.

Farage's Rise and threat to the UK

The discussion focuses on British politics, particularly Farage's rise and the potential for a shift towards far-right governance. James argues that Farage success in England will re-energise the SNP & inevitably speed up the UK's break-up. Both express concern about the working-class appeal of Farage's populism and discuss the perception of left-wing politicians as communists by some conservatives.

Demographic Shifts and Political Implications

The discussion focused on demographic challenges and political implications, with Nick and James exploring how an aging population and ironically more financially secure voters are more likely to vote for Farage and his brand of nut-job populist extremism, while younger generations face difficulties accessing housing and other opportunities. James argues that a more liberal -leftist brand of populism - with policies such as I.D. cards and German-like tests for trades people - might help counter the poison and certain chaos of Farageism.

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James Hawes @jameshawes2 is a historian and author of a novel and books such as including The Shortest History of Germany and The Shortest History on England

Nick Cohen's @NichCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond.

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Nick Cohen talks to Lowdown regular and Guardian columnist Rafael Behr about Labour's struggle with the new international Trump disorder, its communications crisis, perceived serial bungling by Sir Keir Starmer and the party's perceived drift.

Starmer struggling with Trump's betrayal of the West

In anticipation of a possible US strike against Iran's nuclear facilities, Rafael & Nick discuss the growing decay of the so-called US-UK "special relationship". Rafael does not believe that Sir Keir Starmer grasps "the sheer enormity of what is happening." He adds "I think he's ultimately a very small "c" conservative person who thinks you can just fix things by sort of just getting through, making do mending sort of DIY around the status quo and hoping that that process will just see you through."

Trump's Putin fanboys are nothing new

Rafael reminds Nick that the American First tradition was "very sympathetic of Hitler or, wanted to keep out of the second World War." He adds, They developed conspiracy theories that Roosevelt was really responsible for Pearl Harbour and all that kind of underworld, which never went away in America, is, is now back, is now back with Trump." Like America First, Trump's MAGA are in a world of where Putin apologists & conspiracy crackpots are now right at the heart of power in Washington.

Clueless Kemi & her hapless party are all at sea

Rafael has completely lost her bearings of where votable right ring thinking is current/y, and even Trump was "...not so stupid as to do the sort of Kemi Badenoch trying to out Reform Reform by being in the sort of mad slightly conspiracy theory, tinge, racist, digital silos that reform paddle around in."

Keir Starmer is an analog prime minister in a digital age

Rafael is convinced that Starmer doesn't have a fully worked out concept of the British economy. Labour has major communications problems and Raf is picking up murmurings among Party figures of possibly replacing him. "he would've been a great Prime minister in 1968 or 1949, " says Rafael, adding, "he's a fantastically well qualified analog prime minister!"

Rafael's recent book Politics: A Survivor's Guide: How to stay engaged without getting enraged is published by W.F.Howes Ltd and available at Amazon and in all good bookshops.

Support the show You can also read his wonderful columns in the Guardian. His X handle is @rafaelbehr

Nick Cohen's @NichCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Authoritarian Tactics in Western Democracies

Nick Cohen and Ben Cohen discuss the tactics of authoritarian leaders, comparing them to successful torturers who exploit vulnerabilities in Western democracies. Nick emphasises that liberal democracies often turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants due to the logistical challenges of enforcing strict immigration laws, which he argued is a weakness that authoritarian leaders like Trump exploit to consolidate power. Ben agreed with Nick's analysis. They also briefly touched on the importance of avoiding formal conversations by not reviewing questions in advance.

Immigration Policy and Political Polarisation

Ben discusses the complex dynamics of immigration policy and its role in American politics, particularly focusing on how Trump's immigration policies and the left's response are contributing to a polarised environment. Ben argues that the left's protests against ICE raids lack strategic direction and may inadvertently play into Trump's hands by validating his claim of a national emergency. He expresses concern that this situation could serve as a dry run for Trump's potential re-election strategy in 2028, where he might use similar tactics to claim the need for extended military involvement to "save the Republic."

Left's Ineffective Fascism Fight Strategy

Ben talks about the current political climate in the United States, focusing on the lack of hope for a free and fair election in 2028 due to insufficient reforms on the left and the resistance's inability to address political realities such as immigration. They agreed that calling the government fascist is appropriate, but the left's overuse of the term has made it meaningless. Ben expressed concern that the left's approach to fighting fascism is ineffective, as they have alienated many people by incorrectly labelling others as fascists in the past.

Trump's Impact on American Democracy

Ben describes the current state of American democracy under Trump's presidency, expressing concerns about the erosion of democratic norms and the potential for further authoritarian tendencies. They highlighted the lack of checks and balances, comparing the situation to historical examples of weak democracies, and warned about the dangers of a Trump victory in 2028. They also touched on the role of Trump's base, his control over the Republican Party, and the implications for the future of American democracy.

Media Polarisation and Political Divide

Ben and Nick discuss the current state of media and politics, particularly focusing on the challenges posed by the "woke left" and the rise of authoritarianism on the right. They agreed that many journalists and politicians are prioritising audience capture and contrarianism over principles, leading to a lack of meaningful debate and criticism, especially on the right in Britain. Ben expressed concern about the direction of the country under Trump, highlighting immigration raids as a potential indicator of future authoritarian measures, and called for a unified resistance from the left.

Read Ben's The Banter Substacks here and listen to his podcasts here.

Nick Cohen's @NickCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.