In the second episode of the “5 Wishes for 2025” series, Vasco Duarte tackles one of the most persistent and damaging divides in software development: the wall between Product and Engineering teams. Through stories, metaphors, and real-world examples, Vasco challenges the status quo and paints a vision for seamless collaboration that drives innovation and value.

“It’s like having the ingredients and the recipe in separate rooms – how are you supposed to cook something amazing?”

Vasco begins by highlighting the invisible barriers that still exist between Product and Engineering teams in many organizations. These divisions stifle innovation and slow progress. Drawing parallels to outdated structures, Vasco recounts the struggle to integrate Product Owners into Scrum teams and how that barely scratched the surface of the larger issue.

He calls for a broader perspective: aligning the creative potential of engineering with the customer insights of product management to unlock real innovation.

“Not the mad scientist kind, but real, product-focused experiments that bring technical innovation and product leadership together.”

Vasco shares the success story of a client who created a dedicated experiments team. By combining technical expertise with clear product direction, they delivered rapid, value-driven results. This approach demonstrates the power of collaboration in turning ideas into impactful solutions.

“For the first time, Product and Engineering co-created a plan that aligned with strategic goals – no more top-down directives or forced OKRs!”

Another client reimagined their product planning process after attending a workshop. Instead of cascading initiatives from the top, they worked collaboratively from the ground up. This innovative approach allowed them to align with company goals while fostering ownership and creativity across teams.

“It’s like they turned the wall between Product and Engineering into a large living room where everyone works together.”

Vasco highlights an inspiring case from Berlin, where a company merged technical and product leadership into a single CTPO (Chief Technical and Product Officer) role. This structure bridges the gap, ensuring that both technical possibilities and customer needs are seamlessly aligned.

Catch Vasco’s interview with this trailblazing CTPO in the show notes to explore how this innovative approach is reshaping their organization.

“Product and Engineering are like coffee and milk – different, but together they make something special.”

Vasco’s vision for 2025 is a world where Product and Engineering work side-by-side in shared spaces of collaboration and value creation. He calls for a shift from siloed teams to integrated partnerships where both groups speak the same language – the language of value and impact.

The companies that embrace this shift will be the leaders of tomorrow, delivering innovation at the speed of market change.

“Innovation flows as freely as coffee at a developer conference when Product and Engineering collaborate.”

Vasco invites listeners to experience this transformation firsthand at the Global Agile Summit 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. The summit will showcase real-world examples of organizations successfully adopting flow-based software delivery.

For holiday listeners, Vasco has a special gift: a Super Early Bird ticket with a 75% discount. Visit GlobalAgileSummit.com to grab your ticket and see what the future of software development looks like.

About Vasco Duarte

Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success.

You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.