This is PBSE's 250th Episode! Our deepest gratitude goes out to our global audience of listeners!!! YOU all make this possible! THANK YOU!

After reviewing the last several months of PBSE Episodes, we have tackled a LOT of HEAVY topics! For this 250th episode, we want to focus on all of the hopeful, optimistic, positive reasons WHY we all do the CRAZY hard work of betrayal trauma healing and addiction recovery. To illustrate just how "worth it" this can all be, here's a comment that one our of our Dare to Connect clients just submitted to us—

When I first started with D2C I had a year and half of sobriety from porn and masturbation addiction. My wife and I were still struggling with communication because of her trauma response and my lack of shame resilience. D2C sessions have helped us identify these issues which has helped us to start the true healing and recovery process. We are communicating and now collaborating with each other like we never have before. We are still learning new things a year in and plan to continue with D2C for a while longer. Thank you Mark and Steve for all the effort you put into your work.

You will notice in the title the words in all caps—”COLLABORATING in the HARD”

The greatest CONNECTION, INTIMACY & RELATIONSHIP RESILIENCY come from coming together as a “collaborative team” to face the STRUGGLES!

Our experiences in our own relationships as well as what we have witnessed working with couples for more than 20 years—

• Hard challenges and struggles can tear us apart OR unite us—
  • How does the hard disconnect couples?
    • Turning away instead of turning toward: fear, shame & pain leading to going it alone; trying to CONTROL outcomes
    • Without proper boundaries, the desire to emotionally caretake one another can blur the lines of accountability and diminish collaboration
    • One or both partners engaging in avoidance cycles can establish a pattern of seeking peace at the cost of growth
• How can the hard unite couples—
  • Acknowledging challenges, as well as their accompanying fears, hesitations, insecurities, and vulnerabilities sets the stage for truly intimate dialogue.
  • Steve and Brittany: we may not last through Christmas…
  • Mark & Ladawn: I don’t want to hurt her anymore; I’ll take care of this on my own; let’s not rock the boat on what are at least somewhat stable waters in how she sees me, where we are as a couple, why make this harder than it needs to be . . .

Owning and “being real” about the obstacles ahead puts us in the driver’s seat as a coupleship: Once we know where we are really starting, we can begin to truly prepare for and actually set out on the required journey.

Developing coupleship “skills” in the HARD means REAL SKILLS! We are “welded” together–an atomic bomb can’t break us apart! I’ve got you; you’ve got me; we’ve got US!

We actually get to decide for the first time if we want to CHOOSE “all” of each other—and KEEP choosing each other.

For a summary article from the transcript of this podcast, go to: "COLLABORATING as a Couple in the HARD Struggle of Recovery & Healing"

In Episode 249, Mark & Steve respond in detail to a situation and quesiton submitted by the betrayed spouse of porn/sex addict. Here are her words—

My husband is very closed off with me. He doesn't tell me important things about his life, family, or what really happens in his 12-Step recovery meetings. It's like I have to know the answer and ask specific questions to get him to talk to me with any sort of detail. I know he used to do this to hide his pornography use and affairs. But even simple things, like going to a restaurant he kept hidden. Is this just a part of his personality? He's sober from porn now, but he still doesn't talk to me. It's like I only exist to him when he is at home. He was recently in a car accident and didn't tell me until he came home from the hospital. Is there any hope he will treat me like a true friend and partner, or has compartmentalization become so ingrained in him, this is just how it is?

The song “Say Something” by “A Great Big World”—Say something, I'm giving up on you; I'm sorry that I couldn't get to you; Anywhere I would've followed you; Say something, I'm giving up on you.

• Why can addicts be “closed off” to their partners?
  • It can be “personality/style” from childhood
  • It can be “learned” due to environment, trauma, etc.
  • It can be a BIG part of the addiction cycle/system; shame cycle; fear cycle; etc.
  • These are possible explanations, NOT se
• How does this impact betrayed partners?
  • While partners suffer horrible fallout from betrayal trauma, PTSD, etc., nearly all DO desperately want to connect & collaborate
  • Silence, surface/shallow conversation, “compartmentalization” (as she calls it), hiding, lying, gaslighting, etc., “pile on” and create “Complex Trauma”
• What is the Addict Partner’s Response-ability in this situation?
  • Pride, ego, shame, fear, discomfort, life-long habits, lack of skills, etc. will too easily keep the addict from making the REAL commitment to change.
  • This is ALL about his individual preparation and “what he brings with him” to the coupleship interaction—
    • PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!—Journaling, opening up to his outside support system, simple daily human interactions, conversations with his Higher Power
    • Making deposits to the Relationship Trust Account is SUPER important–and keeping her actively “informed” about your recovery progress, recovery insights, deep thoughts, feelings, etc.
    • Start with “structure” and “expectations”—Daily Couples Check-in; weekly Partnership Meeting; may need to start with written communication or adhere to a “script”--(which may be hard for the partner!)
    • This is NOT easy, but the addict gets to decide IF he will do the consistent WORK to progressively develop and practice the skills—NO MORE EXCUSES!
• What is the betrayed partner’s “side of the street” in this situation?
  • She has AUTHENTIC wants and needs in this relationship!
    • She needs to take time to clearly identify and write down what these are, including her vision of how she desires this relationship to progress.
    • She needs to create boundaries of safety around her wants and needs along with outcomes/consequences
    • It is VERY important that she CLEARLY communicates her deep feelings—like the song we started with . . .
• Will we ever become true friends and partners???
  • What does it mean to “be true friends & partners"?
  • What is INTIMACY?
  • What is CONNECTION?
  • ARE WE COMPATIBLE???

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: pbsepodcast.com

In episode 248, Mark & Steve tackle an extremely intense and heart-breaking submission by a betrayed partner. Here's what she submitted—

I have listened to many of your podcast episodes. An area I wish you would do an episode on is how is a spouse to handle it when your porn addicted/SA husband comes home and discloses (not the first time in our marriage) that he has been acting out for several years and contracted an STD. How am I supposed to forgive and get past that? I can’t see ever having an intimate relationship with him. However, we have built a great life (other than his sexual addiction) over our 20+ year marriage. He shows remorse, is in therapy as am I. We have not had a Formal Therapeutic Disclosure yet but it’s coming. There are a lot of aspects I’m struggling with but would love an episode on navigating an incurable STD. Sincerely, Heartbroken Spouse.

Our hearts go out to this betrayed partner! In too many ways, the consequences and fallout are not only devastating upon disclosure, but also create an ongoing traumatic nightmare!

• There are serious, long-term and permanent medical implications at play with this example which we are not going to tackle here.
  • IT IS CRITICAL that this couple, if they haven’t already, seek immediate medical testing and treatment, as well as education regarding the issues at play and their long-term implications.
• What this is like for betrayed partners?
  • The compounding effects of ”Complex Trauma”—trickled disclosure, “bomb dropping”
  • A “painful paradox”—facing the devastation & realities of disclosure and PAST/ONGOING trauma while at the same time—”We have built a great life over our 20+ years of marriage”
  • What is authentic for her going forward—her wants and her needs; what is she willing to do and not do; VERY SPECIFIC BOUNDARIES around this!
• What is this like for the porn/sex addict?
  • WHEN the addict is ALL in and doing the WORK, the CONSEQUENCES & OUTCOMES of his past choices do NOT magically go away! In some ways, this process actually INTENSIFIES!
  • How does he PROACTIVELY meet his betrayed partner’s authentic wants & needs; provide as much safety as is possible; be TRANSPARENT about his work; his learning; his progress; PROACTIVE PLANS he puts together and presents–LEAD OUT!
  • What is he willing or not willing to “sacrifice” for this to work going forward?
• When these two worlds COLLIDE—Addiction & Ongoing Trauma—how can a Couple navigate this?!
  • Be mindful of the tendency to reactively make BIG decisions in the midst of intense emotion BEFORE the recovery & healing processes have had a truly fair chance to unfold, progress and bring about positive change.
  • Create as safe a space as possible for OPEN, AUTHENTIC EXPRESSION & DIALOGUE—NOT avoiding, minimizing, care-taking, shutting down, etc., to escape sitting in and talking about the HARD
  • Although CRAZY HARD in the midst of addiction & betrayal, TEMPORARILY pushing a “pause” button and “sitting in a state of grace” while the small, progressive steps in the process unfold.
  • Then, having done “all” you feel you can, coming together to ask, “Are we compatible”? Can we “get” to compatibility? HOW?
  • This will, due to the ongoing nature of the issues, NEED TO BE AN ONGOING DISCUSSION, with appropriate medical and mental health professionals involved.

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: https://www.daretoconnectnow.com/post/how-does-a-betrayed-partner-navigate-the-news-that-their-sex-addict-partner-has-contracted-an-incura

In this episode, number 247, Mark & Steve discuss a situation and questions submitted by the betrayed partner of a porn/sex addict. She does a great job presenting a balanced description of their situation, while also being very direct, vulnerable and authentic. Her addict partner has struggled with porn addiction nearly his whole life and when all the "trickle truths" started coming out, it nearly finished off their marriage. But, they both got into therapy and did a lot of hard work individually and as a couple for over a year. She describes their marriage as "feeling a lot safer and stronger."

At the same time, there are still some significant struggles. Here's how she describes it—

The issue that continues to arise for me, is that my husband seems to “need” sex every 4 days, or he will feel that he is too distracted by women and his sexual desires which impacts his recovery. This also impacts my ability to feel that I am in full control of my own body as well as feeling wanted and chosen, as opposed to just being the object of a selfish need. I understand that men are biologically more inclined to feel sexual desire more often, but is he limiting himself in his healing journey by assuming that this need is normal and biological (his words). He does have some sort of goal to increase the amount of days by using self discipline, but it seems that he believes it’s a biological need for men and specifically for himself because he feels too much physical and mental discomfort when he pushes it off. He has not masturbated in around 8-10 months (other than 1-2 slips, and a recent relapse) but we have created a plan where he has the option of masturbating after 7 days of no sex if he feels he “needs” it. My question is—does this sound like something that is limiting the recovery process or is each person an individual case and this plan can be something that is helpful for him and helpful for me to feel full control of my own body, while he does his own recovery work?

Mark & Steve directly address this couple's situation and this betrayed partner's questions. They discuss the critical importance of the addict taking charge of the healthy wiring and management of his brain's "pleasure/reward system" and how this impacts his recovery. They address the "need" for sex vs. a healthy balance in a WHOLE relationship. They speak raw and real about "his side of the street" and what he is response-able and account-able for in this situation.

They also speak directly to what this betrayed partner needs for her own "body sovereignty" and for a path of true healing. In addition, they speak to what is needed to make consistent deposits to the relationship trust account and what true "holistic intimacy" looks like vs. a narrow focus on physical sex. Also discussed are healthy sexual boundaries and what it means for an addict in recovery to evolve, mature and transform.


For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: https://www.pbsepodcast.com/post/my-porn-addicted-partner-has-adhd-he-insists-i-must-manage-his-recovery-for-him-to-succeed-is-this

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In episode 246, we explore the concept of interdependence in the context of recovery from betrayal trauma and porn addiction. Interdependence, often mentioned but not always fully understood, is a critical aspect of healing and moving forward in a relationship after the discovery of a partner’s addiction. Many betrayed spouses struggle with defining what interdependence looks and feels like, particularly as they navigate the complexities of their partner's ongoing recovery and behavior. Today, we’ll dive into what interdependence truly means and how it manifests in real-world scenarios, especially for those who have been deeply impacted by their spouse’s actions.

Our discussion centers around the journey of a betrayed spouse who has been married for over two decades and is actively working on her own recovery after discovering her husband’s sexual addiction. She shares her experience of wrestling with the pain of watching her husband’s behavior, such as scanning or getting captivated by other women, and how it feels intensely personal, even though she intellectually knows it’s not about her. This inner conflict highlights the struggle many face in separating their spouse’s actions from their self-worth, and how exhausting it can be to maintain a healthy mindset amidst these triggers.

We’ll also examine how interdependence can evolve over time, contrasting the early stages of recovery with later phases where individuals may experience greater emotional resilience and independence. The question is raised about whether, over time, triggers like a partner’s inappropriate behavior still impact those who are further along in their recovery. This conversation is not just about reframing mindsets but also about understanding how personal growth and healing can empower individuals, regardless of the outcome of their marriage. Join us as we unpack these challenging dynamics and provide insight into what interdependence can look like in healthy, recovering relationships.

• What IS “interdependence”/COLLABORATION? What does it “look like”?
• What does “independence/the Authentic Self” in recovery and healing look like for both partners?
  • For the recovering porn addict—
  • For the partner healing from betrayal trauma—
• What kinds of things can disrupt one’s independent recovery and healing paths?
  • For the recovering porn addict—
  • For the healing partner—
• How do “independent/authentic” partners progressively move into a place of “interdependence”?
  • Each must have a clear understanding of what it means to “own my side of the street”—to step into my voice, my truth, my sovereignty and my EMPOWERMENT and be WORKING IT!
  • Be VERY mindful of the EARLY signs you are leaving the realm of sovereign independence and entering back into sacrificing one’s Authentic Self and boundaries around that self.
• What are the PROGRESSIVE steps to traveling the path of interdependence and coupleship collaboration?
  • First and foremost it’s all about “What you bring with you” to the coupleship interaction! Self-care; outside support system; shame resilience work . . .
  • MUST agree to interrupt long-standing, emotionally intense/reactive relationships patterns! Establish CLEAR communication boundaries and TAKE A BREAK every time one or both go outside those boundaries (do NOT weaponize this!)
  • Don’t allow “reactive situations” to always be where you try to “work on healthy communication/collaboration.” Intentionally plan and practice hard topics—Journaling & Higher Power; Outside Support Systems; Couples Daily Check-ins: weekly Partnership meetings.
  • This is a process NOT a destination–be patient; give grace; don’t give up.

Visit www.daretoconnectnow.com

In Episode 245, Mark & Steve respond to an all–too–common, legitimate struggle faced by the betrayed partners of sex/porn addicts. Here's a submission from a partner—

My husband is starting a new position within his company where he will be working very closely with this woman. She is highly attractive, and the only female in the male dominated company they work in. He has admitted a few times that “_______” is beautiful, smart and is going to go far in the company. While I have never been concerned he’s going to cheat on me, with her or anyone else, I have a lot of mixed feelings about them working so close together. I’m scared that he is fantasizing about her, masturbating to her and lying to me about it. Like he has lied to me about everything else so far. I asked him bluntly and he laughed at me and told me that “he only has eyes for me—obviously, we’re married!” He has some pretty obvious “tells” when he is lying and I’m almost certain he is in this case. How can I, as the spouse, learn to (I guess) just be okay with it and trust that work relationships are just that, work relationships?

• A History of Lying and Betrayal trauma trigger MANY symptoms for a partner that are understandable, legitimate and CRAZY HARD!
  • “Like he has lied to me about everything else so far”
    • Hypervigilance, seeking for guarantees, feelings of competition/comparison, doubting her intuition/gut, exhausted by his gaslighting, etc
  • She has every right to be skeptical, guarded and suspicious.
  • “How can I, as the spouse, learn to (I guess) just be okay with it and trust that work relationships are just that, work relationships?”
    • You shouldn’t.
• These concerns need to be TRANSPARENTLY EXPLORED, THOUGHT OUT, and SHARED with him.
  • In whatever way/medium is safe for her.
  • He needs to access resources and/or skills (as needed) to be able to HEAR, PROCESS, CONNECT WITH, and VALIDATE her concerns in a vulnerable way.
    • Connecting with/utilizing a support group, therapist, sponsor, daily renewal partner, journaling, etc
    • This happens ideally not just in the moment (trigger management), but also is cultivated in advance (self-care routines)
• Situations like this point towards the “bigger issues” within the relationship
  • Lack of trust
  • Lack of safety
  • (potentially) lack of dialogue
  • Lack of collaboration
• For the partner, FINDING YOUR AUTHENTIC VOICE is something to grow in terms of skillset and practice:
  • Discovering the authentic self
  • Setting boundaries
  • Setting and holding consequences to preserve safety and authenticity
  • How can you “know” what he’s doing or not doing?
• How to begin addressing this as a coupleship—
  • Get comfortable with the uncomfortable
  • Practice via daily check-in’s
  • Couples therapy
  • Programs like D2C

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: https://www.pbsepodcast.com/post/my-porn-addicted-partner-has-adhd-he-insists-i-must-manage-his-recovery-for-him-to-succeed-is-this

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 244, Mark & Steve address the betrayed partner of a porn/sex addict who submitted the following to PBSE—

As a partner of an addict, what can I do to help my partner feel more supported during his recovery, so that he may feel more comfortable telling me the truth??? Time and time again, I have caught him in lies or omissions and it’s eating away at the trust in our relationship. Most recently, we engaged in physical intimacy and I could tell IMMEDIATELY that he had been looking at porn that day. I can’t explain it- I just knew. I felt used, like my body was simply a means to an end for him, like a masturbation device. So I asked my partner if he’d been hiding anything from me, and he came clean that he did in fact have some slips over the weekend. I have since made it clear, respectfully, that I do not wish to engage in intercourse while information about his sexual proclivities is being withheld from me. The main issue here is that during previous conversations, he has agreed to PROACTIVELY come to me when these slips happen so that I don’t have to play detective anymore… but he has never followed through with that agreement, and he continues to wait around until I ask the perfect question. After this incident, my partner told me that he doesn’t feel like he can come to me because I get really quiet when he talks about his slips and therefore I do not make him feel supported enough. If you have any suggestions or words of wisdom to share, I would greatly appreciate it so much.

For Her:

• Take the time to truly explore your feelings, wants, and needs, and then come up with boundaries and attached consequences for each.
• Vulnerably share these with your partner, in whatever way is safest.
• Ensure that you are practicing healthy communication skills:
  • When feeling anger or anger-related feelings (which are absolutely legitimate), be sure to express this in a way that also communicates the vulnerable primary emotions under the anger.
  • Avoid toxicity in your dialogue (name-calling, sarcasm, mind-reading, etc.) and stay true to what is "authentic" to you.
  • As safety allows, be very proactive in your expression of needs, as well as your thoughts and feelings. Hold FIRM boundaries and their accompanying consequences/outcomes.
  • Recognize that you can’t “make” anyone continue to feel or not feel anything. They choose which feelings to focus on and remain in.
  • SURRENDER THE REST. IT'S ON HIM.

For Him: An addict in sincere recovery will be making progressive efforts to:

• Practice true account-ability
  • At a BASELINE, this means telling the WHOLE truth at ALL costs!
  • Doing the hard work to not just share lapses/relapses, but to discover:
    • What led up to the lapse/relapse
    • What broke down on his end
    • What specific changes will he make in future encounters with triggers
• Sit in “Uncomfortable Places”
  • Why are you responding the way you do your partner's reactions?
  • How are you response-able for your actions & your responses?
  • In what ways are you growing in your capacity to practice uncomfortable ownership and account-ability?
• As Addicts, WE CAUSED THIS. We may not be responsible for all of the circumstances that got us here in totality, but we ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE responsible for how we handle, show up for, and address "today."

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: https://www.pbsepodcast.com/post/is-it-my-responsibility-to-make-my-porn-addicted-partner-feel-comfortable-so-he-will-consistently-te

In Episode 243, Mark & Steve address a very important issue submitted to PBSE by a listener who is the betrayed partner of a porn/sex addict. This question especially resonated with Mark as he himself, along with a number of his children and many of his extended family, have suffered with the challenges of mental illness and related diagnosed issues like ADHD. Here's the submission by a PBSE listener—

My husband and I have been friends for close to 20 years, in a relationship for 7 years, and married for 3. He has been addicted to pornography for most of his life, close to 40 years. I started to suspect something a couple weeks before we got married, and he finally confessed his addiction about 6 months later. We now both have CSATs that work together as a team and we have been seeing them for about 18 months. My husband has been doing fairly well, or so I thought, but I have just found out he has been in a relapse for a couple of months. I am of course hurt and angry that he would go back down this road after all the work, time, and money that has been invested in his recovery. He very much wants to get back on track, but feels that I need to take a much larger role in his recovery. I should mention that my husband is diagnosed with ADHD. For this reason alone, he feels he needs me to essentially manage his recovery. If he has homework, sit down and do it with him. Set up our weekly check ins and give him reminders about them. Follow up that he has made therapy appointments, continually check in with him that he is not using porn etc. I do not want to have to manage all this for him. He feels that If I truly care and support him, I will understand that because of his ADHD, this is what he needs in order to be successful. I do know that it is not the wife’s place to do this typically. Is there ever a time, for instance when ADHD is present, that this could be a healthy, successful approach to both partners' recovery. Thank you so much.

• First of all, we have tremendous empathy for those challenged by ADHD.
• This is NOT an episode about the intricacies of ADHD and how it relates to addiction and recovery. We covered this topic in a very basic sense in Episode 210. This episode is about what it means to be truly PROACTIVE and LEAD OUT in one’s own recovery.
• Mental Illness and Addiction: One of the great challenges in our field is an issue of “What came first, the chicken or the egg?” Did mental illness, trauma, abuse and the like come first and lead to addiction or vice-versa? Mark can speak to this from personal experience . . .
• What was HORRENDOUSLY HARD for Mark was honestly and vulnerably facing what it means to “own MY side of the street/MY recovery.” What does it mean to “LEAD OUT” and be PROACTIVE? How do you balance this with realities, limited capacities, self-compassion, etc.?
• With mental illness, trauma, abuse and the like in the mix, there are more “moving parts” to recovery.
• What IS a reasonable expectation for an individual with both challenges—addiction and mental illness/trauma/abuse? What are the EDUCATION, RESOURCES & TOOLS in today’s world?
• Moving from “me” to “WE” and how to find the balance in the “addict’s side of the street” vs. the “partner’s side.”
• What does true “collaboration” look like as a coupleship?
• How does the betrayed partner of an addict balance her own self-care, betrayal trauma healing and boundaries in this whole process? How does she walk the delicate line of healthy support vs. enablement?

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: https://www.pbsepodcast.com/post/my-porn-addicted-partner-has-adhd-he-insists-i-must-manage-his-recovery-for-him-to-succeed-is-this