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Ken welcomes pastor, historian, and special advisor to the President at Baylor University, Dr. Malcolm Foley. Just this month, his new book - The Anti-Greed Gospel: Why the Love of Money Is the Root of Racism and How the Church Can Create a New Way Forward - has just been released. Dr. Foley shares something of his faith and spiritual journey. As an undergraduate at Washington University in St. Louis, he majored in Finance and the Classics. After earning an M. Div. at Yale Divinity School, he completed his Ph.D. at Baylor. His dissertation focussed on the history of lynching in America, and the responses of African American Protestants to the horror of it all. Ken and Malcolm unpack the thesis of his new book: that racism is rooted in greed. They talk about his concept of racialized capitalism, the dominance of white supremacy, the witness of the “Church Fathers” and the biblical passages that deal with greed and wealth. In the 1987 movie Wall Street, Gordon Gekko (played by Michael Douglas) declares, “Greed is good!” Dr. Foley disagrees. He takes a deep dive into the reality of lynching and the use of violence and terror to subjugate black folks. It’s a hard look at history. They talk about Malcolm’s heroes in the movement: Martin Luther King, Malcolm X (for whom he was named), and Ida B. Wells among many others. Toward the end of their lively conversation, Ken asks Dr. Foley about the current weaponization of phrases like DEI, Woke, and CRT which do not appear in the book.

Don’t miss Malcolm’s response.

SHOW NOTES (see links to the book and more about Dr. Foley)

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In this episode, we get a close-up look at immigration - from the immigrant’s perspective.

Ken welcomes veteran actor, Stelio Savante who plays a key role in the new independent film, “Between Borders.” In his nearly forty years as an actor, Stelio is a SAG award nominee with over 140 credits in television, and theatrical releases. In the popular series, The Chosen, Stelio plays the role of Moses.

Ken and Stelio talk about his career in film. They follow his journey of faith, starting in his country of birth - South Africa. From Capetown, Stelio goes to college in the United States where he excels in sports - and in theater.

Then they get into the powerful drama of the film, Between Borders. Stelio plays the role of an American Missionary who meets Armenian refugee Ivan and Petrosyan family in Russia. Here’s a summary from the official web site -

“In a crumbling Soviet Union, the Petrosyan family finds themselves as outcasts—wherever they go. Their Armenian heritage marks them for discrimination, first in their home country of Azerbaijan and then in Russia. After finding their eternal hope through a church planted by American missionaries, the hostility of everyday life pushes them to seek refuge in the United States. In the shadow of exile, hope became their home. Based on a riveting true story of faith and hope set amidst great oppression.”

The role of Violeta Petrosyan is played by Elizabeth Tish (who plays Mary in The Chosen). Ken and Stelio unpack the power of the story and Stelio’s identification, himself an immigrant and now a citizen.

Stelio also tells the story of his role as Moses in The Chosen, and Demas (one of the thieves crucified with Jesus) in The Two Thieves.

SHOW NOTES - See links to Stelio’s work.

Between Borders Official Site - How to see the film

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Ken welcomes Osahon for another Cabana Talk and a review of the Super Bowl Half-Time Show. They invite their good friend Grant Young, a Play Station engineer they met in a Table Talk hosted by Ken and Osahon in 2021. As the Philadelphia Eagles met the Kansas City Chiefs for Super Bowl VIX, the epic half-time performance featured rapper Kendrick Lamar, Pulitzer Prize winner with 17 Grammys (47 nominations), twice named among TIME MAGAZINE’s Most Influential Person of the Year, Rock and Roll Hall of Famer and many other awards. Osahon and Grant have been long-time fans - and with enthusiasm watched the show together with great interest. From personal experience, both Osahon and Grant (a graduate of California Baptist University with both Bachelor's and Master's degrees) know white evangelical spaces well and lament much of the misplaced controversy around the famed Hip-Hop artist. They explain the very public, long-time tension between Lamar and Drake; the appearance of Samuel L. Jackson and Serena Williams; and the elegant symbolism on full display throughout the show. Ken, Osahon, and Grant agree with the USA TODAY Opinion that “The Super Bowl was a rejection of Trump’s Vision for America.” It was the first time in history that a sitting President appeared in person at the Super Bowl. He sat through the tepid reception (as many boos as cheers), the conspicuous absence of camera focus on him, the black national anthem, the many black artists who performed, the powerful half-time show, and the sound defeat of his favored Kansas City Chiefs. His later Truth Social posts confirmed that he was not pleased. This podcast is a lively, informative discussion of an event viewed by 128 million people around the globe. See SHOW NOTES for referenced articles.

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Kemp and Fong agree. We need each other now more than ever. Steve Bannon predicted the strategy of this new administration. He declared, “We’re gunna flood the zone with sh*t.” He was prophetic. The Zone has experienced a flash flood. The two Kens thought the new President’s intent would be to drain the swamp - but the flash flood of Executive Orders, the defunding, the closures, the pardons have all had the intended effect. None of us, not the politicians, not the media, not the pundits - none of us can keep up. The two podcasters review several articles that have been illuminating. One tells the story of Hungary: Viktor Orbán’s takeover of their vibrant democracy, turning it into an authoritarian state. The Atlantic published a thorough review of the history of Hitler’s first 53 days - in which he dismantled Germany’s democracy by using the Constitution to accomplish that goal. And then, V.P. J.D. Vance emerges as an amateur theologian, justifying the neglect of the marginalized by coming up with a “God-ordained hierarchy” that in essence, gets us off the hook for caring for our neighbors. It’s a collaboration of the Two Kens to stay on the alert, speak the truth, and maintain our vigilance. SHOW NOTES

SOURCES:

VOX - Their democracy died.They have lessons for America about Trump's power grab. Hungarians who lived through Viktor Orbán’s 2010 power grab warn Americans: Act now, before it’s too late by Zach Beachamp February 5, 2025

ATLANTIC - HOW HITLER DISMANTLED A DEMOCRACY IN 53 DAYS He used the Constitution to shatter the Constitution. By Timothy W. Ryback, JANUARY 08, 2025

JD Vance accidentally directed us to a crucial moral question: Just ignore the godawful reading of Christianity he used to get there. VOX by Sigal Samuel, February 6, 2025

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NUMBER 401

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Ken and Betsey review over five years of Beach Talks as Ken posts the podcast’s 400th episode. Three friends check in to celebrate - Darcy McKenzie, Osahon Obazuaye, and Ken Fong. Betsey, a Chicago resident, shares some of her experience this month spending three delightful weeks in Tuscon - the Arizona Desert. Ken and Betsey then compare notes on the new administration’s first two weeks in power. It’s been a firehose of headlines, including those controversial cabinet appointments, an avalanche of executive orders, bizarre explanations (for Southern California fires and then those terrible plane crashes), targeted attacks on D.E.I., inflationary tariffs, trade wars, and plans to absorb Canada, Mexico, Panama, Greenland, and now Gaza under America’s domain. Elon Musk takes the axe to congressionally mandated programs. Oh - don’t forget - it’s now “The Gulf of America” and “Mt. McKinley.” Predictions of the imposition of the feared Project 2025 (which the then-candidate for President claimed he knew nothing about) turn out to be way understated. Turns out, it was a detailed script for these first two weeks. The President and his supporters said they would “drain the swamp,” but it looks more like Steve Bannon’s colorful prediction - that on Day One, Trump would “flood the zone with sh*t.”

Ken and Betsey commit to keep this podcast and their Beach Talks going - we need each other now more than ever.

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When Ken researched his Bible School classmate, Melvin Warren, he stumbled across Dr. Curtis’ book. It referenced a familiar, legendary press conference. In 1970, at the famed Arch entrance at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, Melvin made a speech as the cameras rolled and journalists scribbled notes. He claimed that the school’s racism so marred his experience as a student that he tore up his diploma and tossed it into the trash. He made national news.

That incident not only drove Ken into a years-long quest to understand the dynamic of racism in his white evangelical church but it also played significantly into the doctoral dissertation of another Moody grad, Dr. Jesse Curtis. Dr. Curtis is now an assistant professor at Valparaiso University. Ken and Jesse compare notes on that momentous event. It prompted Ken’s Beached White Male journey. It also contributed to Dr. Curtis’ doctoral focus - now a book considered a “must-read” by both Jemar Tisby and Kristin Kobes du Mez. Ken and Jese discuss The Myth of Colorblind Christians: Evangelicals and White Supremacy in the Civil Rights Era.

Dr. Curtis covers the history of racism in the white evangelical church going back to the Billy Graham era when Howard Jones became the first African American evangelist on “The Team.” Jesse believes that the Church Growth Movement founded by Donald McGavran contributed to the segregation that was a feature in the explosive growth the church at the turn of the century - including “ethnic” congregations and mega-churches. McGavran’s protege, C. Peter Wagner, added fuel that dynamic. In their wide-ranging discussion, they talk about evangelical super-stars like Rick Warren and Bill Hybels as well as champions like Bill Pannel, Tom Skinner and John Perkins. Curtis argues that the notion of “colorblind Christians” is a myth.

While he wrote some five years ago, the case is as relevant as ever. Just this week, in his inaugural address, the 47th President stated, “We will forge a society that is colorblind…” His supporters stood in enthusiastic applause. Ken and Jesse agree: this is not progress. SHOW NOTES

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Episode Number 399

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Ken welcomes Washington political commentator, speechwriter, and author Peter Wehner. Pete is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum. He is well known for his prolific contribution to the intersection of politics, public policy, and faith. Early on, he identified as a conservative, a Republican, and an Evangelical. From 2011, when Donald Trump campaigned to challenge the legitimacy of the Obama Presidency, suggesting that he was born in Kenya and not the U.S.A., Wehner has called out the danger of a Trump presidency. Pete has been a stalwart in opposing Donald Trump and in the process, he no longer identifies as a Republican or an Evangelical. He remains a traditional conservative. However, he has offered a powerful and sustained critique of evangelical support for Donald Trump and a Republican Party that has become subservient to the newly elected President. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson played a key role in that transition. Ken and Pete have a lively discussion over his early years as a new Christian, his college career, the influence of his scientist father, his move to Washington, Reagan’s speech after the Challenger disaster, George Bush’s 9/11 speech (Pete was in the White House that fateful day), and finally Donald Trump’s complete take-over of the Republican Party and his return to the White House for a second term. SHOW NOTES

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Episode #398

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When Ken Fong saw the flames coming over the ridge from his front yard, he voluntarily evacuated along with his adult daughter. His home church, First Baptist of Pasadena, opened its doors to evacuees. Fong joined them for two nights. Ken Kemp, dealing with power outs, high winds, and menacing fire danger, called on Ken for a conversation around this catastrophic fire season - especially for Pacific Palisades and Altadena. Fong’s wedding, scheduled for this weekend, meant that a late-night departure from his home included a tuxedo and patent leather shoes. At the church, Ken shares the dramatic collection of painful stories he encountered the two nights he slept in the church.

In addition, the two Kens talk about the passing of President Jimmy Carter and his powerful legacy.

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