• The Embrace the Messy Podcast with Shannon Schinkel

  • By: Shannon Schinkel
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The Embrace the Messy Podcast with Shannon Schinkel

By: Shannon Schinkel
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  • Summary

  • I’m Shannon Schinkel. I’m a high school educator, challenge seeker, lifelong learner, and embracer of all things messy. I find my inspiration from individuals who are passionate about learning and embracing change. Join me as I share my own experiences and interview people who will inspire you to embrace the messy too. Interviews drop every 2-3 weeks. Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition segments drop every Friday.
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Education
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Episodes
  • Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 2 - This is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale

    Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 2 - This is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale
    Jan 10 2025
    Link to my Bloom’s Taxonomy https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6fxd9swyym0kzmo0mb0tq/Blooms-taxonomy-2024.pdf?rlkey=9drjow0o7qzjjp6xjrjkxxjxu&st=b0eqotkd&dl=0 TRANSCRIPT: Welcome back to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition episode two in our proficiency scale design series, This is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Last week, we tackled backward design. This week, we’re taking on another mess educators face daily—understanding and breaking down standards. After all, as the title suggests…this is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale.________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: If you’ve ever looked at a standard and felt lost, you’re not alone. Some standards feel like someone took every education buzzword, threw them into a blender, and hit puree. In British Columbia, we have some of the most thoughtful and beautiful standards—but also some of the longest and even confusing (in my opinion). They can leave you wondering: What am I even supposed to teach here? No matter if you are here in BC or elsewhere the common issue is twofold: 1. Standards are often wordy, full of excessive complexity. 2. The verbs within the standard don’t always match the intended learning outcome. Last week, I spoke about the importance of backward design which means we must start with the standard. This week, our job is to unpack these standards—break them down into clear, user-friendly language that makes sense for us, our students, and caregivers. But breaking them down doesn’t mean throwing out the original. It’s about sense-making. Once that happens, you might here yourself say: “Oh, that’s what this means!” And then come back to the original to ensure nothing critical is missed. ________________________________________ Let’s Break It Down: Here’s where Bloom’s Taxonomy comes in (and by the way, other taxonomies also work well here but I’m going to stick with Bloom’s because a, I’m a huge fan of Benjamin Bloom and b, it’s in my wheelhouse). Bloom’s taxonomy is a brilliant tool because it helps us align the verbs in standards with the intended level of thinking. Verbs like create, evaluate, or analyze point to higher-order skills, while verbs like remember or understand focus on foundational knowledge. But—and this is key—the verb at the beginning of a standard isn’t always the intended focus. The full standard matters. For example, in Hiking 101, our imaginary course, imagine that one of the standard’s reads as follows: “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” It’s long, it’s wordy, and it doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. So, let’s unpack it together. ________________________________________ Visualize This Scenario: You’re part of Hiking 101. The instructor gives you this standard, expecting you to “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” Sounds simple, right? But what does apply mean here? Appropriate strategies? Tools – what tools? Environmental awareness? Huh? Take a deep breath. Let’s break down this standard into steps: 1. First…Align it to Bloom’s: According to Bloom’s Taxonomy, apply means using knowledge or skills in a new situation. So, for the hike, you’re not just memorizing trail rules or identifying equipment, you should be able to do it in a new situation. 2. Second… look Beyond the Verb: This is important because it sometimes tells us what the strategy entails. For example, if the standard was Apply appropriate strategies to plan an independent hike, the words plan an independent hike fall more in line with create in Bloom’s taxonomy. Creating is more about inventing and designing. Now in our case, when we examine Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike — it justifies that in this case, the standard is definitively about using knowledge or skills in a new situation. Learn it and do. 3. Three…Define the Words Beyond the Verb: What are these appropriate strategies to plan an independent hike? This will come from the content. The strategies and tools will be the foundation for as the standard suggests, “ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” In the content, there is using tools like maps and compasses, demonstrating pacing strategies like adjusting your speed on steep inclines or taking scheduled breaks, and showing environmental awareness like packing out trash or staying on marked trails to protect the ecosystem. So, let’s pause for a minute. We first aligned the standard to Bloom’s by looking at the verb and the words AFTER the verb. It’s application — using it in a new situation. Check! Then, we used the content to help us understand the rest of the standard. So now, let’s Rephrase It: We know the standard now, so...
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    10 mins
  • Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 1 - There's no place like backward design

    Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 1 - There's no place like backward design
    Jan 3 2025
    TRANSCRIPT: Hey everyone, welcome to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition Episode 1: There’s no place like backward design! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Today, we’re kicking off a new series on Proficiency Scale Design—and where better to start than by embracing the messy reality of Backward Design? It’s time to let go of old habits and embrace a new way of thinking about lesson planning. Trust me—it’s worth it. There’s simply “no place like backward design…no place like back design…” ________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: Many teachers still plan lessons by focusing on content first. They think teaching means covering units, chapters, and textbook sections in a specific order. The more they cover, the better, right? Wrong. This approach is called forward design, where the focus is on moving through material, hoping students learn what they need along the way. Where did this come from? Forward design was historically embraced by educators because it aligned with traditional educational practices. Teachers were used to creating lessons around familiar topics or textbooks, with assessments added afterward. Since early educational models prioritized delivering content, learning was seen primarily as acquiring knowledge through lectures and materials. This made forward design feel straightforward and flexible, allowing teachers to plan engaging activities first and fit assessments around them. Moreover, during the industrial age, schools operated like factories—teaching was the input, and learning was the expected output—reinforcing the step-by-step logic of forward design. With few detailed assessment frameworks available, teachers naturally focused on delivering lessons and evaluating learning afterward, making backward design less practical at the time. But here’s the challenge: If students don’t fully grasp the essential learning targets, what was the point of covering all that material? Checking off topics, assigning quizzes, and grading papers might show progress on the surface, but deeper learning happens when lessons are purposefully designed with clear goals in mind. Forward design emphasizes completion, while meaningful learning requires planning with mastery as the destination. ________________________________________ Let’s Break It Down: Let’s talk about what Backward Design really means. It’s a planning process where you start with the end in mind—the learning goals or standards—and then work backward to decide what activities, lessons, and assessments will help students reach those goals. With backward design, consider these reflective questions: • What skills and knowledge should students have by the end of the course? • How will you know students have learned these skills? • What learning experiences will support their growth? Note that the learning opportunities come last, not first. Content is still important, but it’s the path, not the destination. Many teachers fall into the unit coverage trap. They feel pressure to cover every topic and every chapter, often falling into the 'inch deep, mile wide' trap where they may rush through numerous units without ensuring deep understanding of essential skills. But here’s the reality: Coverage isn’t learning. Beginning with the units often means: • Rushing from unit to unit with the idea that students need to get through all units regardless of whether they have mastered a skill • Giving assessments which tend to focus on content or are a mishmash of skills all rolled into unit assessments rather than skill-specific assessment • Checking off curriculum boxes without ensuring students mastered anything meaningful • Backward design frees you from that pressure. When you plan with the standard as the destination, you can be selective about what content really matters. Educators can still follow the linear progression of units but should focus on the skills students need to develop, ensuring each unit meaningfully supports those skills rather than simply covering topics in order. You prioritize depth over breadth and ensure that what students learn sticks. This approach focuses on teaching skills, not just topics, ensuring that learning is intentional, purposeful, and aligned with meaningful outcomes. Backward design isn’t about throwing out your favorite lessons—it’s about making sure they fit the goal. Consider refining or replacing lessons that don’t help students reach the standard. Well-designed learning opportunities can still follow a familiar sequence, provided they build the skills students need. Revisiting and refining favorite lessons can ensure they serve a clear, intentional purpose. So, shifting from forward design to backward design can feel uncomfortable at first, especially if you’re used to planning around units. But remember: It’s not about teaching less—it’s about teaching better. ____________...
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    9 mins
  • 28 - Dr. Thomas Guskey Embraces the Messy

    28 - Dr. Thomas Guskey Embraces the Messy
    Dec 30 2024

    People, do I have a treat for you! Last summer I had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Thomas Guskey, and I am finally, finally getting around to sharing it with you—and I thought, what a perfect full length episode to share before the Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale series drops this Friday! Dr. Guskey is an internationally renowned educator, researcher, and author whose career spans decades of groundbreaking contributions to education. From his early days as a middle school teacher to his influential work in grading reform, mastery learning, and educational evaluation, Dr. Guskey has shaped how educators and leaders think about teaching and learning. I also got to meet another one of my assessment heroes, and he did not disappoint. We explored his insights, his latest work, and the powerful ways we can reimagine education together.

    ***

    Contact Dr. Guskey through his website: Tguskey.com

    *** Have a suggestion for someone Shannon should interview, a question about an episode, or some feedback about the podcast, email Shannon here: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com.

    Thankyou for listening! Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.

    Find out more about Shannon Schinkel:

    https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel
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    1 hr and 8 mins

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