Bob Skinstad represented South Africa Rugby at all levels. Having captained the under 21 Springbok side in 1996 and 1997, he ascended to the adult team as a replacement on 29 November 1997 against England. He would go on to play 42 tests for the Springboks, scoring 11 tries – and captained the national side to its second Rugby Union World Cup in 2007, before retiring. Bob is now a Partner at the challenger consultancy firm Elixirr.

Very recently Bob and Andrew Mehrtens (former All Black) completed the takeover of French second division club Beziers, heading up a consortium which also features ex-Formula 1 boss Eddie Jordan.

Bob and I have a very candid chat about what is was like growing up in Zimbabwe as a white privileged child in an affluent family. During his teenage years Bob started to become fully aware of the challenges within South Africa during Apartheid. In fact Bob went on to meet Nelson Mandela in his role as national captain of The Sprinboks. Bob shares some great memories of chatting to Nelson Mandela and his incredible leadership and approach to inclusivity even after decades of incarceration.

Bob reflects on his early life in South Africa and even with his obvious sporting talent he accepts that he took things for granted and didn't have a mentality for all out winning.

Today, as a leader in business, Bob describes himself and learner as opposed to leader. The older he gets the more he realises what he doesn't know.

When Bob started to play rugby it wasn't a profession for a full time role, it was all amateur. That changed for South Africa during the 1995 World Cup as Rugby started to mean more to the nation. Bob lived the transformational change within South Africa and became the first professionally contracted rugby player in the country. He made his men's debut in 1997 against England.

Bob recalls having two district careers in rugby, one was the young devil may care maverick player that catapulted him into the national team and one was the captain and leader of a nation where he had to learn the history and scarred memories of many of his players who did not have the upbringing that he experienced.

Belonging is a principle need for humanity and Bob explains how this is a powerful contributor to a high performing team, especially within a sporting context. Leading and managing chaos is inevitable on the international rugby field and Bob explains the importance of strategy, planning, speed of decision making and practice to help mitigate the chaos.

One of Bob's standout lessons is that there are different types of people 'givers need to learn when to stop because takers never do' and so Bob realised how important it was to find his tribe with belonging purpose and passion.

www.elixirr.com/en-gb/person/bobskinstad

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This episode was filmed in front of a live studio audience at Vorboss in central London. Kevin O'Leary spent 30 years as a police officer with the Metropolitan Police retiring as a Chief Superintendent. Kevin was also, now famously, episode No.1 of The Leadership Enigma which started during the pandemic.

This episode is a fascinating insight into the world of crime and punishment including undercover policing, hostage negotiation, stolen vehicles, riots, serial killers and more.

Kevin decided to become a police officer after he was robbed at knife point at 14 years old and the police solved the crime and actually recovered his bicycle.

As a very young probationary police officer Kevin found himself policing the miner's strike in the 1980's during the time Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister and also the Broadwater Farm riots which involved the murder of PC Keith Blakelock, all providing Kevin with a baptism of fire into the world of policing.

Kevin's time with the Stolen Vehicle Squad was his initiation in the Criminal Investigations Department (CID) and learning how to carry a case load of allocated reactive investigations.

In 1999 Kevin became involved in the Admiral Duncan Pub bombing. He was around the corner on an unrelated surveillance operation when the bomb was detonated. At the scene, Kevin was faced with chaos and destruction. As one of the first on scene his ability to make quick decisions and prioritise were tested to the max.

As a police officer and leader, picking up on 'weak signals' is a must in a world of constant change. Kevin tells the story of dealing with a High Risk missing person which turned into uncovering the actions of an international serial killer, John Sweeney, who is currently serving life in prison and will be the focus of a recent television documentary.

Kevin as a senior officer held the role of Head of Undercover Policing for the Metropolitan Police and explains the iconic investigation he was involved in that was headlined in the newspapers as 'The Hip Hop Cop Shop.' Kevin had to make a series of difficult and at times unpopular decisions for the ranks and file officers in order to help protect them from the rigours and stresses of undercover operations.

One of Kevin's final roles in his career was as Bronze Commander during the London 2012 Olympics with a funny story of the cycle protest group 'Critical Mass' that had been infiltrated and decided to see if they could intercept the Queen!

Kevin is also the 'referee' for the award winning TV show 'Hunted' which is on our screens each year.

www.kevinoleary123.com

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Tom Monahan took on the role of CEO of Heidrick & Struggles in 2024. He came to Heidrick & Struggles with a decades-long career of building and leading innovative technology, data, and services companies and as a long-time Heidrick & Struggles client.

Most recently, Tom was president and CEO of DeVry University, where he led the university to digital innovation, sustained growth, outstanding student success metrics, and financial strength as a newly independent institution.

Tom is passionate about people and the role that leadership has to create a world better led. Tom explains to me that the right people, in the right role leading in the right way is the single most important driver for high performing organisations. Tom's decision to take up the CEO role of Heidrick & Struggles was based on the ability of H&S to really make a difference for organisations in finding the right leaders and to co-create great performance on an individual and collective basis. Tom describes leaders are Magpies, building their nests out of anything they can find within themselves and in their surroundings based on insatiable curiosity and a beginners mindset.

I ask Tom about his parents and family background as I search for clues into his focus and success. His answer will surprise you.

Tom tells me that in his role as CEO he is the steward of the business and the people are the only thing that won't be worth less from the day they begin working in the organisation. Each and every day a person grows, learns and experiences in a way that builds the sum of the parts. It is the human capital that is the most precious resource of any business.

One of Tom's primary strengths is his ability to frame a problem or issue in order to create focus as opposed to always having an answer. 'Fast Starts matter' Tom explains, so getting quick insight is paramount for any leader and organisation in gathering the collective intelligence to focus on the issue or problem and resolve it.

Leading experts has always been a leadership challenge and Tom tells me that he is expert in the way we used to do things and not how we should do things so he has to get out of the way of his people and allow them to operate in a way that they know is best.

As CEO Tom is focused on creating an environment where the best people come to do their best work. Tom also understands that any new CEO must be 'courageously humble' as he tries to understand the business that he is taking over, the people that he leads and the culture that he initially inherits. The most dangerous thing a CEO can do, is be a focus group of one.

Tom is an introvert by nature so the very social and public facing element of the role is a constant challenge for him and he fondly remembers the advice from an inebriated aunt that if something is worth doing, it is worth overdoing.

www,hedrick.com

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