00:00 Introduction
01:13 Who is Gabi Varga?
06:05 A Holistic Approach to Fitness
10:51 The Imprint of Trauma on our Bodies
12:18 Nurturing Our Nervous Systems
20:38 When Clients Feel Safe Even Tears May Come
23:16 Understanding What Dysregulation of The Nervous System Is
37:15 Fight, Flee, Freeze or Fawn Responses.
40:41 What Trauma-Sensitive Personal Training May Look Like
52:00 Where to find out more about Gabi and her work.

I first discovered Gabi Varga’s work during the pandemic, while searching for a way to stay active without going to the gym. Growing up as an athlete—playing football, lacrosse, and competing in track—I had my share of experiences with harsh, even abusive coaching styles. Like so many in our culture, I often held myself to impossible standards. Add to that the challenges of lingering trauma from childhood surgeries, which have left me with muscle imbalances requiring extra care during training, and I knew I needed a different approach.

When I came across the phrase “trauma-informed personal training” in my feed, I was immediately drawn to Gabi’s unique perspective. Following her work was a game-changer, helping me reframe my workouts with more compassion and curiosity. Her approach offered a much-needed reset for both my body and mind. Our schedules finally aligned for us to have a deep dive into this fascinating topic and new approach to fitness.

More about Gabi:

I grew up in Hungary and became a group fitness instructor at 20. Fifteen years ago, I moved to Montreal for someone who became my husband and turned out to be emotionally abusive. At the time, I didn’t realize it; I was busy learning English and starting my life from scratch. I built a wonderful life with amazing Hungarian friends and a great following of fitness participants.
During COVID, I found a somatic therapist. This body-based approach made so much sense, helping with nervous system regulation and trauma release. The shift was slow but significant. I started my own personal training business but felt stuck with conventional "no pain, no gain" fitness.

I began using somatic techniques in my sessions and discovered trauma-informed personal training, which excited me. I completed the next course available.

Now, I help people who are healing from existing trauma improve their relationship with movement and reach their fitness goals. By listening to you and understanding your individual needs, we can work together to turn exercise into a safe, sustainable, and joyful experience.Often, we overlook our body’s signals, pushing through pain or overtraining—leading to injury, burnout, shame cycles, and even trauma responses like dissociation.

Trauma-informed training unlocks your potential by embracing a gentler, more mindful approach. Together, we’ll build tools for body awareness, self-regulation, and understanding what your body truly needs to reach your fitness goals safely. Most importantly, we’ll reframe exercise so it feels genuinely good.

Gabi's website: https://thetraumainformedpt.com/

Michael's Website: https://michaeldemaria.com

00:00 Introduction
01:40 Who is Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer?
03:10 All The Honey
04:20 How did you become a poet?
07:50 What opened your heart as a child?
08:19 A poem a day.
09:20 "I wrote the first bare line...pure wisdom...pure foolishness"
10:40 Poetry and dealing with darkness and her son's death.
14:00 Turning Towards What is True.
14:43 It doesn't have to be good, it just has to be true.
16:00 How my daily practice of writing helped me not shut down.
16:34 Finn's amazing light, compassion and how he shined so brightly.
21:22 Wrestling with being true - a poem.
22:50 The friction of contradiction becoming the poetry of paradox
23:49 POEM: Two Truths (about her son's death)
26:00 How those we love become more present through their physical abscence...
27:00 The necessity of creativity to survive the greatest challenges and traumas
28:40 It is in our most desperate places that we need creativity to survive
29:00 The importance of community - sharing our creativity with others.
30:00 Loss is the place beauty starts...
32:00 Van Gogh and a multi-media project that was so healing
32:54 A synchronicity with a bunnie appearing during our interview!
36:00 Vincent Van Gogh's sister-in-law and brother Theo having preserved his legacy.
37:50 Bearing the fruit we came here to bear.
40:00 How can we see our story so we can see through the story.
42:00 POEM: The Invitation
44:40 Hearing silence more deeply...and silence as a powerful honoring...
47:00 Who are your people?
48:46 People of the Twilight
50:35 Living with a foot in both worlds
51:37 Rilke and the Darkness - Faith in Night
54:20 Endarkenment
58:30 Wanting to Die
1:03:00 Poignant Mysterious Synchronicities with Finn
1:06:00 Amor Fati and honoring what happens on the River of Life
1:10:00 Connecting with those on the other side of things...
1:13:00 Being with What Is...
1:14:38 POEM: Going Deeper Into The Mystery
1:16:43 Spaciousness of Heart
1:18:55 Being Carried
1:22:00 NEW BOOK: "The Unfolding" comes out in October

I came across one of Rosemerry's poem and was immediately hooked by her authenticity and depth in her poetry. After reaching out to her and receiving such a kind response I was so grateful for her willingness to be on The Other Side of things!

Be prepared for one of our deepest dives on The Other Side of Things. Our soulversation took us into some profound spaces and silences that I found personally so deeply enriching and meaningful. I felt truly transformed by our time together, and I hope you will too.

Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer co-hosts Emerging Form (a podcast on creative process), Secret Agents of Change (a surreptitious kindness cabal) and Soul Writer’s Circle. Her poetry has appeared on A Prairie Home Companion, PBS News Hour, O Magazine, American Life in Poetry, on Carnegie Hall stage, and on river rocks she leaves around town. Her collection Hush won the Halcyon Prize. Naked for Tea was a finalist for the Able Muse Book Award. Rosemerry has been writing and sharing a poem a day since 2006—a practice that especially nourished her after the death of her teenage son in 2021. Find her daily poems on her blog, A Hundred Falling Veils or a curated version (with optional prompts) on her daily audio series, The Poetic Path, available on your phone with the Ritual app. She is the author of Exploring Poetry of Presence II: Prompts to deepen your writing practice, and her poetry album, Dark Praise, explores “endarkenment,” available anywhere you listen to music. Her most recent collection is All the Honey, and in October, 2024 she’ll release The Unfolding with Wildhouse Publishing. In January 2024, she became the first poet laureate for Evermore, and is helping others explore grief, bereavement, wonder and love through poetry.

Website: https://www.wordwoman.com/
Daily poetry blog: https://ahundredfallingveils.com/
Daily poetry app for your phone: https://app.ritual.io/rosemerry
Podcast on creative process: Emerging Form http://emergingform.com/
Newest Book: All the Honey https://bookshop.org/p/books/all-the-honey-rosemerry-wahtola-trommer/18666020
TEDx: The Art of Changing Metaphors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXC3-ZFkhDo
Poetry album on “Endarkenment”: Dark Praise https://rosemerrywahtolatrommer.bandcamp.com/album/dark-praise
Upcoming Book: Unfolding https://wildhousepublishing.com/the-unfolding/

Michael's website: https://michaeldemaria.com/

00:00 Introduction
01:37 Who is Kevin Lucas?
03:47 Who is Shannon Rogers?
05:40 How Kevin found stem cell therapy.
09:45 How Shannon found stem cell therapy.
15:18 Michael's experience with stem cell therapy.
19:00 You are not your diagnosis!
20:45 What is stem cell therapy and how does it work?
27:20 The rest of the world has been doing this for the last 50 years!
27:50 In 2015 law changed for us to be able to access in the US.
29:50 Where do stem cells come from?
30:30 How does New Hope Regeneration source them?
31:50 How the newest techniques make it available for most anyone.
32:50 What are mesenchymal cells?
33:50 These are from umbilical cords that would simply be thrown away.
34:17 The wave of the future?
37:20 New Hope Regeneration's desire to make it more available.
38:10 What should someone look for when considering options for stem cell therapy?
43:15 Is there anything that can't get better?
48:00 Difference between older and younger doctors regarding their support of stem cell therapy.
49:30 Do your research!
50:00 80 percent of second opinions give a different opinion. Doctor's aren't all knowing.
50:40 Becoming a full participant in your own health care.
51:30 We are more biodynamic than biomechanical.
52:00 How do people find out more about New Hope Regeneration's options?
54:00 How my digestive issues kept me from living my life more fully for 20 years.

I have wanted to share about the experience I had with stem cell therapy for a number of years now and Kevin, Shannon and I finally was able to carve out some time for this very invigorating deep dive into all things stem cell therapy.

Kevin Lucas is a health & wellness advocate, public speaker, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and consultant that is well known for his commitment to helping patients manage their health challenges and chronic pain. At the beginning of his career, Kevin Lucas of New Hope Regeneration worked as a Board Certified Advanced Structural Integrator. This position allowed Lucas to dedicate himself to alleviating the pain and improving the quality of life of patients suffering from MS, auto immune conditions, Parkinson’s, Fibromyalgia, and a host of other conditions with the capacity to cause pain and discomfort. While aiding patients via therapeutic touch indicative of Structural Integration was rewarding, Kevin Lucas decided to expand his development and the tools at his disposal, leading to him co-founding New Hope Regeneration in 2015. Now, Lucas introduces patients to how Infiniti Cells can be harnessed for their anti-inflammatory, regenerative, and immunomodulatory qualities to strengthen the body’s ability to repair itself. He also works as a consultant for New Hope Regeneration, helping potential patients determine whether Infiniti Cell Therapy is the right path for their needs.

Shannon Rogers is a curious researcher in the field of human behavior and dysfunction. She has worked professionally and passionately with thousands of people for over twenty years, helping them move beyond abuse and trauma. She blends years of fervent learning with some of the most powerful tools on the planet into her methods. She passionately believes that processing emotions is the key to the fountain of youth, vibrance, and clarity leading to your greatest breakthrough, beyond fear and trauma. She has witnessed people turn back the signs of aging and to discover healing and functionality through her powerful work. She possesses a unique ability to quickly grasp the root of the problem and to compassionately lead you to your greatest potential.

Kevin's website: https://newhoperegeneration.com/
Shannon's website: https://www.shannonlynnrogers.com/

Michael's website: https://michaeldemaria.com/

00:00 Intro
01:55 Who is Jessica Fern?
04:00 What is love?
06:00 I wrote this book for love.
08:00 Jessica's finding the language of polyamory
10:00 Paradigms, Mindsets and Social Lenses
11:50 Emotional Wiring from our Conditioned Mindsets
14:00 Polyamory - different ways of understanding many loves
16:15 What are polyintimates? Emotional connections vs. physical
18:00 How to approach difficult discussions around polyamory?
21:00 Parts work - what is it and how to work with our many 'parts/sub-selves'?
23:40 Does everybody have a poly part??
25:30 The Mono-Poly Spectrum
26:00 Ambiamory
30:00 Poly as a choice, orientation vs philosophy
32:30 Working with Jealousy
38:00 How to deal with attractions to others?
39:00 Attraction vs. Admiring others
41:50 We don't own other's sexuality nor do they own ours
44:30 Current challenges socially with non-traditional relationship styles
47:30 Parenting within a Poly Paradigm
50:20 Monogamous guilt?
51:15 Cautions when dealing with children with partners mono or poly
52:52 Importance of multiple healthy secure attachments for children
54:40 "If you want to fly with eagles, you have to get used to high places."
57:20 Jessica's journey to becoming an author and influencer by sharing her soul's purpose
59:38 Allowing fear, without being ruled by it when making a big leap
1:02:00 Our evolution if we allow it, never ends.
1:04:00 Not being reactive to ourselves - the inner world is diverse and vast
1:05:00 How to work with our inner critic?

I first came across Jessica's work reading her book Polysecure during COVID while working with a couple who identified as Polyamorous and I was feeling at a loss of how to help them maneuver some challenging terrain. They recommended the book, and I was deeply moved by the depth, heart, and thoughtful wise council and gut wrenching honesty she shared. I could tell this was a life long mission for Jessica and her courageous exploration of this new terrain in our cultural landscape so impressed me I couldn't wait to learn more about her work and finally she had a break in her schedule to be on my podcast! Whether you identify as poly or mono - you WILL learn from this women's wisdom and compassion as a healer and teacher.

Jessica Fern is a Psychotherapist, Coach, and Certified Clinical Trauma Professional. Jessica is the author of Polysecure: Attachment, Trauma, and NonMonogamy, The Polysecure Workbook, and Polywise: A Deeper Dive Into Navigating Open Relationships. In her international private practice, Jessica works with individuals, couples, and people in multiple-partner relationships who no longer want to be limited by their reactive patterns, cultural conditioning, insecure attachment styles, and past traumas, helping them to embody new possibilities in life and love.

https://www.jessicafern.com/

Link to Polywise: https://www.amazon.com/Polywise-Deeper-Dive-Navigating-Relationships/dp/1990869149/ref=asc_df_1990869149/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693552282123&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5573493542095631161&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011687&hvtargid=pla-1943262976306&psc=1&gad_source=1

Link to Polysecure: https://www.amazon.com/Polysecure-Attachment-Trauma-Consensual-Nonmonogamy/dp/1944934987/ref=pd_bxgy_d_sccl_1/147-8704442-1839406?pd_rd_w=iaIaB&content-id=amzn1.sym.c51e3ad7-b551-4b1a-b43c-3cf69addb649&pf_rd_p=c51e3ad7-b551-4b1a-b43c-3cf69addb649&pf_rd_r=RHACKHR99C6JP5JW1HYT&pd_rd_wg=ywsPS&pd_rd_r=cc90e47c-3264-464e-bb6a-68b930c0058e&pd_rd_i=1944934987&psc=1

Michaels work: https://michaeldemaria.com/
Links to Michael's Music, Books and Films: https://michaeldemaria.com/michaels-links/
Link to Michael's Music: https://listen.michaeldemaria.com/mbd

00:00 Intro
06:04 How we met and how he finally published his book
07:30 Madness and Alternative states of reality
11:00 Mad in America and Others Stories
13:04 A Fight To Be - his book
14:07 Ron's 23rd Birthday in the Psych Ward
16:26 "You don't look schizophrenic."
17:00 Auntie Ray, Ron's Mentor
17:33 Fugitive Literature
18:28 Insulin Shock
19:01 "Coming Out" as a psychiatric survivor AS a psychologist
19:51 Michael's Soulchosis at 18
22:00 Being a Double Agent
24:42 What is psychosis?
27:12 Madness as a search
29:37 Neurodiversity
33:37 Underworld Journey
34:27 Soul Initiations
40:00 Exquisite Sensitivity, Empathy and Intuition
41:11 Intuitive Feelers
42:32 Reliance on Feeling is discouraged in our culture
45:33 Ron's visit to a Zen Ashram
48:21 Working with Families - Ron's new project
49:00 Typical Trajectory of someone who may be headed towards psychosis
50:00 Importance of a supportive family
52:00 Open Dialogue
58:14 The problem with trying to control what isn't controllable
1:06:00 Each person is on their own journey
1:10:00 Jesus vs Christ Consciousness
1:11:51 What truly heals?
1:12:00 Don't Push the River and Windhorse
1:17:00 The Ocean, The Mystic, The Madman and Swimming Lessons
1:19:00 Mind Freedom
1:25:00 Hearing Voices Network
1:30:00 Mad Pride and David Oaks
1:35:00 Ron's current work

Ron is an amazing human being, a resilient soul and a true elder and wise sage. We first met when a mutual friend of ours introduced us. Ron had not published his moving and poignant book, "A Fight to Be: A Psychologist's Experience from Both Sides of the Locked Door," yet and I'm so honored that our connection helped encourage him to finally publish it. It is a riveting story that moved me to my core, given that I have had friends and family members and my own experiences with extreme states of consciousness that I prefer to call soulchosis.

I've wanted to have Ron on for a long time and we both finally found time in both of our schedules for this deep dive into psychosis, madness and soulchosis! Ron is also involved in a new family oriented approach to helping those experiencing madness that draws from Open Dialogue a process that has eradicated hospitalizations for psychosis in Lapland.

Ron's website: https://www.ronaldbassman.com/
Ron's book: https://www.amazon.com/Fight-Be-Ronald-Bassman/dp/0979626609
Mind Freedom's website: https://mindfreedom.org/
Hearing Voices network: https://www.hearing-voices.org/
Mad in America: https://www.madinamerica.com/

Happy Halloween and welcome to my new podcast! I will still be doing my other podcast: Musitations™: Exploring Music, Meditation, Creativity and Wisdom, however, this is the beginning of a much deeper and larger conversation on many challenging topics where we need to begin to move from the friction of contradiction to the possibilities of creative paradox.

Introduction:

No one knows everything, but everyone knows something no one else knows – including you! Welcome to The Other Side of Things – I am your host Dr. Michael DeMaria and for 35 years I’ve been a guide of the soul. On The Other Side of Things we explore alternative perspectives on challenging topics ranging from love, sex, death, and madness, to dreamwork, breathwork, and other cutting edge healing modalities. We live on a precipice as a species, so lets jump in.