As co-founder of The Design Gym consultancy, Andy Hagerman has spent over a decade tackling the challenge of aligning employee needs with business strategy—an issue that can make or break organizational success. Working with clients like Marriott, Cisco, HP, and Kellogg’s, he has honed his craft by addressing complex organizational needs. In this episode, Andy unpacks a large case study with a major retailer, revealing how understanding the employee experience can create new opportunities for both business growth and workforce engagement.

Andy Hagerman is the co-founder and managing partner of The Design Gym, a consultancy dedicated to work experience design and organizational transformation. The Design Gym has trained over 20k individuals and partnered with over 300 organizations, including Marriott, Kellogg’s, Cisco, and HP.

In this episode, Dart and Andy discuss:
- Designing work experiences with The Design Gym
- Andy’s latest case study
- Exploring alternatives to product managers
- Tools and principles for employee design research
- Connecting employee life and work dynamics
- Actionable insights from research and journey mapping
- How retail experts drive business success
- And other topics…

Andy Hagerman is the co-founder and managing partner of The Design Gym, a consultancy dedicated to work experience design and organizational transformation. With a focus on co-creation, employee research, and delivering actionable insights, Andy helps organizations align employee experiences with the organization's strategic objectives. Over the past decade, his consultancy has trained over 20,000 individuals and partnered with over 300 organizations, including global leaders such as Marriott, Kellogg’s, Cisco, and HP.

Before founding The Design Gym, Andy served as a business and innovation strategist at Jump Associates, where he honed his expertise in developing forward-thinking strategies for complex challenges. Andy is also a former guest lecturer for NYU, Columbia University and Parsons, and has led breakout workshops at both TED and TEDMED conferences.

Connect with Andy:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewhagerman/
www.thedesigngym.com

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Companies have long treated employees like children, micromanaging their tasks and monitoring every move, hoping to boost productivity. The problem is that this approach undermines trust and stifles innovation, parenting employees instead of supporting them. Sammy Burt, author of What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, is working to shift this mindset. She helps organizations embrace a “grown-up” approach that fosters autonomy, confidence, and more empowered, innovative workplaces— treating employees as the adults they are.

Sammy Burt is a professional facilitator, systems coach, and leadership consultant at Farleigh Performance. Her upcoming book, What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, explores the complexities of adulthood and personal growth through insightful storytelling and practical guidance.

In this episode, Dart and Sammy discuss:
- How companies “parent” employees
- Treating employees as adults at work
- Distinctions between adults and grown-ups
- Joy, grieving, and empathy in the workplace
- The link between child-like behavior and innovation
- Transactional analysis in the workplace
- Adult development theory
- And other topics…

Sammy Burt is a professional facilitator, systems coach, and leadership consultant at Farleigh Performance. With a background in psychology and extensive experience in both corporate and creative industries, she specializes in empowering clients to build resilience, develop leadership skills, and navigate change with confidence. Sammy is also the author of the upcoming book What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, where she explores the complexities of adulthood and personal growth through insightful storytelling and practical guidance.

Resources mentioned:
What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, by Sammy Burt: https://www.yourbackpack.co.uk/whatisagrownupanyway
Design for Belonging, by Susie Wise: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Belonging-Inclusion-Collaboration-Communities/dp/1984858033
Useful Not True, by Derek Sivers: https://www.amazon.com/Useful-Not-True-Derek-Sivers-ebook/dp/B0D86K4XF5

Connect with Sammy:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sammyburt
www.farleighperformance.com

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Award-winning entrepreneur and author Robert Glazer has identified a core issue in today’s companies: the traditional “growth-at-all-costs” mindset is unsustainable. After a decade of relentless expansion, many companies are struggling to grow without burning out their employees along the way. Robert believes there is a better way—one that brings teams along on the growth journey to benefit employees and the company alike.

Robert Glazer is an award-winning executive, speaker, author, and the Founder and Chairman of Acceleration Partners. Under his leadership, his company earned accolades like Glassdoor's Employees’ Choice Award and was named a Best Place to Work by Inc. and Fortune. Robert was also named Glassdoor’s #2 Top CEO for small and medium companies in the U.S.

In this episode, Dart and Robert discuss:
- How Robert became #2 CEO on Glassdoor
- Growing people vs. growing a company
- The 4 attributes of transformational work
- How core values shape leadership styles
- The true origin of company culture
- Building agency and resilience within teams
- Overcoming learned helplessness at work
- And other topics…

Robert Glazer is the Founder and Chairman of Acceleration Partners, a global partner marketing agency that has consistently been recognized for its exceptional company culture and business performance. Under his leadership, the company earned accolades like Glassdoor's Employees’ Choice Award and was named a Best Place to Work by Inc. and Fortune. Robert was also named Glassdoor’s #2 Top CEO for small and medium companies in the U.S.

A passionate advocate for personal and professional growth, Robert is the bestselling author of five books, including Elevate and Friday Forward. He is also a sought-after speaker and host of The Elevate Podcast, sharing insights on leadership, business, and building capacity. Through his writing and work, Robert inspires individuals and organizations to reach their full potential.

Resources mentioned:
Rethinking Two Weeks Notice, by Robert Glazer: https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Two-Weeks-Notice-Employees-ebook/dp/B0DGRZRXYY
Elevate, by Robert Glazer: https://www.amazon.com/Elevate-Beyond-Limits-Success-Yourself/dp/1492691488

Connect with Robert:
www.RobertGlazer.com

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Product managers are often used to setting goals and going after them with a single-minded focus, achieving success by pushing for results. If they approach the job like a mechanic—fixing, controlling, and managing tasks—they risk stifling innovation and limiting their team’s potential. Without realizing it, managers can create an environment that suppresses growth. John Cutler, a seasoned product manager and researcher, believes that by adopting a service-oriented mindset, managers can instead empower their teams, foster growth, and ultimately drive better results for both the product and the people.

John Cutler is the Head of Product at Dotwork, a strategic alignment platform that integrates metrics, insights, and workflows to drive better decision-making for businesses.

In this episode, Dart and John discuss:
- Balancing variety, complexity, and focus in design
- Horizontal vs. vertical products
- A service design mindset for managers
- The traits of a great product manager
- 3 major challenges that product managers face in software
- Empathy and agency in management
- And other topics…

John Cutler is a seasoned product manager and user experience researcher. He excels at tackling complex problems and uncovering the "why" through qualitative and quantitative insights. Currently, John serves as the Head of Product at Dotwork, a strategic alignment platform that integrates metrics, insights, and workflows to drive better decision-making for businesses. Before joining Dotwork, he held pivotal roles, including Senior Director of Product Enablement at Toast and Head of Product Education at Amplitude, where he honed his expertise in product strategy and education.

Resources mentioned:
“How Capable Leaders Navigate Uncertainty and Ambiguity,” by John Cutler: https://cutlefish.substack.com/p/tbm-274-how-capable-leaders-navigate

Connect with John:
Substack: https://cutlefish.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnpcutler/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

An estimated 1 billion people switch jobs every year, and the war for talent continues. Leaders and HR teams keep using the same hiring strategies as the average employee tenure decreases year after year. Companies aren’t addressing the root issue: employees crave meaningful work, supportive colleagues, and growth opportunities. Unless companies transform their approach to employee satisfaction, they’ll keep losing their best people—something Ethan Bernstein and Michael Horn believe we can prevent.

Ethan and Michael are co-authors of Job Moves, a book that uses the Jobs to Be Done theory to approach job selection as hiring a role to fulfill personal and professional goals, encouraging a more holistic perspective on career choices.

In this episode, Dart, Ethan, and Michael discuss:
- Major pushes and pulls driving job changes
- Jobs to Be Done theory applied to work and career transitions
- 4 Quests of job changes: why employees leave their jobs
- Progress vs. progression at work
- Experiences vs. features in job selection
- 9 activities that companies can do to ensure strong employee fit
- How to prototype and test potential career changes
- And other topics…

Ethan Bernstein and Michael Horn are co-authors of Job Moves, a book that uses the Jobs to Be Done theory to approach job selection as hiring a role to fulfill personal and professional goals, encouraging a more holistic perspective on career choices.

Ethan Bernstein is the Edward W. Conard Associate Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. He specializes in the Organizational Behavior unit and focuses his research on the dynamics of workplace transparency, how organizational design impacts performance, and managing human capital. His work has been published in various academic journals and covered by The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Forbes, and Bloomberg, among others.

Michael Horn is an influential author, speaker, and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. He is the co-founder and a distinguished fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute for Disruptive Innovation, a non-profit think tank. His work has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Harvard Business Review, and NBC.

Resources mentioned:
“Why Employees Quit,” by Ethan Bernstein, Michael Horn, & Bob Moesta: https://hbr.org/2024/11/why-employees-quit
Job Moves, by Ethan Bernstein, Michael Horn, and Bob Moesta: https://www.amazon.com/Job-Moves-Making-Progress-Career/dp/0063283581
Choosing College, by Michael Horn: https://www.amazon.com/Choosing-College-Learning-Decisions-Throughout/dp/1119570115

Connect with Ethan & Michael:
www.jobmoves.com
Ethan’s Google Scholar https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=jt4uBuUAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
Ethan’s email - e@hbs.edu
www.michaelbhorn.com
Michael’s Substack: https://michaelbhorn.substack.com/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Moments before presenting at a large conference in Sydney, Gareth Flynn was confident in sharing his expertise on skills strategy. Suddenly, his friend Dart Lindsley tapped him on the shoulder and made a bold claim: skills strategies don’t work. Faced with the unsettling possibility that his expertise might be flawed, Gareth began a research journey to uncover the truth. By engaging with both critics and advocates, he gained a fresh perspective on when and how skills should (or shouldn’t) be prioritized in the workplace.

Gareth Flynn is a writer, speaker, and talent and workforce expert with 25+ years of experience focused on strategy, skills, and leadership. He is the founder and CEO of TQSolutions, Australia’s leading talent and workforce strategy and solutions business.

In this episode, Dart and Gareth discuss:
- How companies approach skills — and when they fall short
- Company motivation for investing in skills strategies
- Insights from the critics of skills strategy
- The difference between skills and capabilities
- The taxonomy of skills
- How AI is grouping people into social classes
- Career drivers vs. life drivers
- And other topics…

Gareth Flynn is a writer, speaker, and talent and workforce expert with 25+ years of experience focused on strategy, skills, and leadership. As the founder and CEO of TQSolutions, Australia’s leading talent and workforce strategy and solutions business, Gareth and his team have advised companies like GE, Philips, Australia Post, and Westpac, among others. Prior to founding TQSolutions, Gareth co-founded The Career Conversation, an early careers experience and engagement business whose client list includes companies like Bank of America and Deloitte.

Resources mentioned:
“Is the Juice Worth the Squeeze?” by Marc Effron: https://talentstrategygroup.com/is-the-juice-worth-the-squeeze/
Connect with Gareth:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethflynn

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When Kim Clark was completing research for his doctoral dissertation, he compared two nearly identical cement plants located five miles apart. As an economist, he couldn’t pinpoint why one plant was 70% more productive than the other. Determined to solve the mystery, he visited both plants and quickly found the answer: the more productive plant had a flat hierarchy and a collegial culture.

Kim, Jonathan, and Erin Clark are co-authors of the book Leading Through, which explores the transition from traditional leadership models to a more human-centered approach that integrates the soul, heart, and mind to create thriving organizations.

In this episode, Dart, Kim, Jon, and Erin discuss:
- Morality in business
- The “power-over” paradigm that humans default to
- Decoupling leadership from hierarchies
- A new paradigm of leadership called “leading through”
- How to activate the soul, heart, and mind in leadership
- Using modularity to lead through work
- And other topics…

Kim, Jonathan, and Erin Clark are co-authors of the book Leading Through, which explores the transition from traditional leadership models to a more human-centered approach that integrates the soul, heart, and mind to create thriving organizations.

Kim Clark is the NAC Distinguished Professor of Management at the BYU Marriott School of Business and former President of BYU-Idaho. He is also the former Dean of Faculty of the Harvard Business School. Within his roles, Kim focuses on the role of leaders in creating outstanding performance, modularity in design, and the interaction of technological change and competition in industry evolution.

Jonathan Clark is an associate professor of management at UT San Antonio. Prior to UT, he served as executive director of the Master of Health Administration program at Penn State. His research has been published in the Academy of Management Journal, Health Affairs, and Leadership Quarterly, among others.

Erin Clark is a managing director with Deloitte Consulting's Human Capital practice, where she specializes in helping clients improve performance, drive change, and create sustainable advantages through people. With over two decades of experience advising clients across industries, she believes strongly in the work of leadership to activate and unleash human potential.

Resources mentioned:
Leaning Through, by Kim, Jonathan, and Erin Clark: https://www.amazon.com/Leading-Through-Activating-Heart-Leadership-ebook/dp/B0CT49ZG1K
Humanocracy, by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People-ebook/dp/B07B9HFSHX

Connect with the Clark family:
www.leadingthrough.co
Kim Clark LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-b-clark-19664920a/
Jonathan Clark LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-clark-3734616/
Erin Clark LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erineliseclark/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When Samantha Gadd began her career in HR, she quickly noticed traditional HR processes and practices often overlooked the people they were meant to serve. Struggling to find the “human” in human resources, Samantha took a leap of faith and founded Humankind, an organization dedicated to putting humanity at the center of work.

Today, Humankind is New Zealand’s leading HR and employee experience (EX) consultancy, partnering with over 1,200 organizations to create more human-centered workplaces that prioritize employee well-being and drive business success.

Samantha Gadd is a seasoned business leader and expert in employee experience (EX) with over a decade of industry expertise. She is the founder and CEO of Excellent and Founder and Director of Humankind.

In this episode, Dart and Samantha discuss:
- Samantha’s journey from HR to EX
- Who buys into EX in organizations
- The origin and principles of the EX Manifesto
- Links between workplace culture and employer brand
- The EX Design School curriculum
- Values of EX that reframe success metrics
- The PREP model: purpose, relationship, enabling, and performance
- Who is best suited for the EX curriculum
- And other topics…

Samantha Gadd is a seasoned business leader and expert in employee experience (EX) with over a decade of industry expertise. She is the founder and CEO of Excellent, an organization dedicated to transforming how organizations approach EX. She is also the Founder and Director of Humankind, New Zealand’s leading HR and EX consultancy which has collaborated with over 1,000 organizations to design impactful employee experiences.

As an EX expert, Samantha has spent over a decade helping high-profile clients transform workplace environments to enhance employee engagement and well-being. In 2022, she also led a group of 34 contributors to co-author The EX Manifesto, which defines key principles of EX design. Signed by leaders in over 30 countries, this document represents a global commitment to reimagining employee engagement and well-being.

Resources mentioned:
www.EXmanifesto.com
The Experience Economy, by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978
Customers Included, by Phil Terry: https://www.amazon.com/Customers-Included-Transform-Products-Companies/dp/0979368111
University of Toronto, service design certificate: https://learn.utoronto.ca/programs-courses/certificates/service-design

Connect with Samantha:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samanthagadd
www.excellent.io

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.