I dedicated my entire second season to Dads as they are a key part of the puzzle when it comes to gender equity. So when I came across some research on Dads that was entitled: “Passenger parenting, role conflict and guilt: the transition to parenthood from new and experienced fathers” - I got very excited.

And that is where Norma Barrett enters - Norma is one of the co-authors of this research and I was so lucky to get time with her to discuss her findings. Originally from Cork in Ireland, she now lives in Australia and is a lecturer in Public Health and Health Promotion at Deakin University.

Norma’s conversation raises the question of how we can facilitate healthy families, when we focus only on the mother’s health. One in ten dads suffer from post natel depression in Australia. Dads suffer too and it is not a zero sum game. We can look after both parents.

This conversation is good for couples who are about to become parents, those who are about to become parents again or for those who are interested in how our system impacts on dads. It leaves us with the question - what would our society look like if we looked after fathers?

We speak about:

• The power of reflections from dads after they transitioned to parenthood.
• Confusion around their roles - dads know that things are going to change but they never really knew how.
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• One of the most striking outcomes from the research was how the fathers wanted to talk about the impact on their mental health and their partner’s mental health.
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• How Dads prioritise their partner’s needs or preferences before them - they see themselves as the support person and it is hard for them to have their own needs - “not wanting to be an added burden”.
• How Dads can feel resistance when they try to take a different role at home or at work - and that passenger parenting was safer for them - they felt they were not able to take the wheel.
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• How roles between parents can emerge organically rather than be active decisions. And that we need to make decisions on parental leave before we even know what it will feel like to be a Dad.
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• Caring about what happens to Dads is not about forgetting about caring for Mums.
• It is important to revisit conversations on what Dads need - at work and at home - again and again. And this can be tricky.
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• Using a magic wand for Dads to help them feel safe in having conversations, for Dads to feel prepared, for Dads to not feel ranked and to be recognised as a parent and not a secondary parent.

Resources Discussed

• Passenger parenting, role conflict and guilt: the transition to parenthood from new and experienced fathers
• Fair Play by Eve Rodsky

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.

Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.

As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part

This conversation is so good on so many levels. I knew that I had to invite Rachel Paris onto the podcast for several reasons. Firstly because she has recently published her debut novel “See How They Fall” and at its heart, it is a story on what it is to be a mother. On what you would do for your children. It is also a story of the strength of women and how so much of our experience can be unspoken. A little bit like the motherhood penalty - a shared experience of many but we don’t always talk openly about it.

And secondly, she has pivoted her career away from being a Lawyer to being an author. And I know that changing up our careers is something that many of my clients wrestle with. There is sometimes a voice inside us, wanting something different for ourselves. So I wanted to chat to Rachel about her experience with this pivot.

And thirdly, Rachel and her husband are a “dual career couple” - they are both working in demanding careers while building a family together. I was interested to talk to her about how they have both approached this and what we can learn.

We speak about:

• The motherhood penalty on your confidence as you return to work.
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• The complicated nature of returning to work to forge ahead in your career - and the value of setting time horizons to give yourself the best opportunity.
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• Sharing the load from the beginning and keeping up the conversations if you are partnered.
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• Asking for help and if you can outsource some tasks - then see it as an investment in your future.
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• Investing in your friends - carving out your own life.
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• We are all creative. Just start, take the pressure off yourself when you start something new.
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• Structure is useful when pursuing a new direction. And you need to be ruthless in creating the time.
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• There is no time limit and every experience is fuel for your creative self.
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• Making the cost of childcare tax deductible and seeing childcare as infrastructure.

Resources Discussed

• “The Next Day” by Melinda French Gates
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• “Let Them” by Mel Robbins
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• “Big Magic” by Elizabeth Gilbert
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• “Lessons in Chemistry” by Bonnie Garmus

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.

Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.

As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

In this last episode of season two, we interview Maddock Price. Maddock is a proud dad to two energetic boys with a third child on the way next year. He lives in Avondale, Auckland, with his beautiful wife, Sophie, and works as the Head of Recruitment at Kiwibank. Raised in Te Awamutu, Maddock is proud to whakapapa to Ngāti Rangi, Te Atahaunui a Pāpārangi, and Ngāi Tahu on his mother’s side, and Wales and England on his father’s side.

Maddock still has his L plates on when it comes to being a dad but loves that he has a wife and a job that empower him to invest more time into "dad life." Along the way, he has discovered some useful strategies for coping with the many demands of being a dad but admits he’s still a long way from figuring out how to be the best dad, husband, brother, son, colleague, and friend in today’s fast-paced world.

Our conversation is a magic one where Maddock very generously shares his own personal story and also the resources and experiences that have shaped him. We speak about:

• The power of reflection for dads and how it is almost therapeutic.
• How tough it is for dual career couples – “everything is stretched”.
• The importance of carving out a third space to give yourself time to reset between the different modes that you operate.
• The role of trust between your employer and yourself.
• How being a working parent is the definition of a high pressure job.
• Giving Dads the gift of working in a flexible way. And being more innovative when it comes to childcare.

Resources Discussed

• “Find Your Unicorn Space” by Eve Rodsky.
• “The Third Place” by Adam Fraser – website here
• Nick Petrie and Opposite World – article here

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded by Works for Everyone, a business based in NZ and operating globally that supports working parents to stay in the leadership pipeline through coaching, workshops, and keynote speaking.

Your host, Emma Mclean, is a mother of three teenagers, an Executive Coach and the Founder of Works for Everyone. Following a successful 25-year career in corporate marketing, Emma launched her business in 2019 to put a care wrap around working parents at the hardest time in their career. She launched the NZ Part Time Power List in 2024 as she wanted to shine a light on individuals that are building their career through part time roles, rather than side stepping it. She is alumni of the 2021 NZ Leadership Programme and a proud Swiftie (a lifelong Taylor Swift fan).

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, we interview Shea Bentley, a father of three children under five. Along with his wife they have leaned into conversations with their employers to ensure they can manage their caregiving responsibilities. Shea was very generous in sharing what works for his family and what his family’s priorities are, including:

• The power of asking for the hours you need from your employer. Even if it feels scary.
• The importance of a family routine at home and communication.
• Talking with other Dads around how they have a career and a family.
• The pressures that Dad feel to be there for everything, to be a good worker and to continue to get promotions.
• The experience of taking parental leave and how hard it was.
• An idea for solving the problems that school holidays can create. Making school holidays and work line up better!

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded by Works for Everyone, a business based in NZ and operating globally that supports working parents to stay in the leadership pipeline through coaching, workshops, and keynote speaking.

Your host, Emma Mclean, is a mother of three teenagers, an Executive Coach and the Founder of Works for Everyone. Following a successful 25-year career in corporate marketing, Emma launched her business in 2019 to put a care wrap around working parents at the hardest time in their career. She launched the NZ Part Time Power List in 2024 as she wanted to shine a light on individuals that are building their career through part time roles, rather than side stepping it. She is alumni of the 2021 NZ Leadership Programme and a proud Swiftie (a lifelong Taylor Swift fan).

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, we interview Joe Consedine. Joe is a former Director of Champions for Change with Global Women where he worked with New Zealand’s leading 80 Chief Executives and Board Chairs on scaled Diversity Equity and Inclusion strategies for Aotearoa, New Zealand.

Prior to Champions for Change Joe was the New Zealand General Manger for Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand where he led the development of the accounting profession’s first ever inclusion strategy, developed a playbook on the gender pay gap with a reach of over 850k and was recognised by the NZ Minister for Women.

Joe is also the co-founder of Mobilise – New Zealand’s first dedicated leadership development and allyship program specifically for men and is currently working with ANZ, New Zealand as head of Equity Diversity and Inclusion. Joe is a member of the Gender at Work advisory board and is a mentor in the Big Buddy programme.

Our conversation is powerful and full of gems from both a DEI practitioner and a working dad perspective.

• The power of his parents and how they influenced his definition of privilege and how privilege comes with responsibility.
• His experience as being the lead caregiver for his daughter while she was younger.
• Having tough real conversations with your partner.
• The importance of Ko wai au? Ko wai koe? Ko wai tātou? / Who am I? Who are you? Who are we?
• How individuals can have an impact on changing the system.
• Redefining what it means to be a man – and how this can unlock men to give more to the world.

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded by Works for Everyone, a business based in NZ and operating globally that supports working parents to stay in the leadership pipeline through coaching, workshops, and keynote speaking.

Your host, Emma Mclean, is a mother of three teenagers, an Executive Coach and the Founder of Works for Everyone. Following a successful 25-year career in corporate marketing, Emma launched her business in 2019 to put a care wrap around working parents at the hardest time in their career. She launched the NZ Part Time Power List in 2024 as she wanted to shine a light on individuals that are building their career through part time roles, rather than side stepping it. She is alumni of the 2021 NZ Leadership Programme and a proud Swiftie (a lifelong Taylor Swift fan).

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, we interview Sam Cunnington Waugh. Sam is a father to an almost 5 month old boy Felix, and a 5 year old daughter Rhea, who has recently started school. He is a Brit, married to a kiwi Bella and they moved over to Aotearoa from London in 2021, during the tail end of the pandemic.

Sam works in government, currently at a crown entity, but has had a varied history in different government departments across the UK and now NZ. He is aspiring to middle management and not totally sure how he feels about that!

He’s a keen musician (having played drums with the London based band Zola Blood) and is now teaching himself classical guitar. He also loves tennis and has been playing regularly with his club since moving here, although this has taken a bit of a backseat since Felix was born. Baking sourdough is his other hobby (acquired during the pandemic like so many others) that keeps him on a level, and literally puts bread on the table.

They have a good support network, particularly through Bella’s mum who lives very close. Auntie Karen has a great relationship with Rhea and often does school pick ups and play dates. That with support from other school parents, both Bella and Sam would say it really does take a village.

Our conversation was full of rich insights and reflections from Sam on his experience as a working dad and if you’ve lived in the UK, you will identify with many of his observations about arriving in NZ. Our conversation includes the topics of:

• How reasoning with a three-year-old helps your negotiation skills when working with the Exec Team.
• How time takes on a different meaning when you become a parent and you often lament where all the time goes.
• The importance of communicating with your partner on what you need.
• His experience of parental leave in the UK.
• The pressures in his career since becoming a parent and the importance of asking for help – even if it feels uncomfortable.
• Switching up the workplace so that more proactive conversations are had with returning Dads and making it easy for them to ask for what they need in terms of flexible working.

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded by Works for Everyone, a business based in NZ and operating globally that supports working parents to stay in the leadership pipeline through coaching, workshops, and keynote speaking.

Your host, Emma Mclean, is a mother of three teenagers, an Executive Coach and the Founder of Works for Everyone. Following a successful 25-year career in corporate marketing, Emma launched her business in 2019 to put a care wrap around working parents at the hardest time in their career. She launched the NZ Part Time Power List in 2024 as she wanted to shine a light on individuals that are building their career through part time roles, rather than side stepping it. She is alumni of the 2021 NZ Leadership Programme and a proud Swiftie (a lifelong Taylor Swift fan).

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, we interview Sean Keaney. Sean, CEO of FCB Wellington, isn't your average ad exec. He's a seasoned veteran, having cut his teeth in the good old days of direct mail, and has since tackled campaigns for a diverse range of clients, from banks to power companies, retirement villages to consumer electronics giants.

But Sean's passion lies beyond the bottom line. He's a champion for important causes, bringing his strategic mind to issues like mental health, alcohol moderation, family violence, and safety across the board - road, water, fire, you name it.

He's also a strong advocate for diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) within FCB Aotearoa, leading the agency's whanaungatanga program. He also represents FCB on the Global Women - Champions for Change group, demonstrating his commitment to fostering a more inclusive and equitable industry.

When he's not strategising campaigns, Sean's a devoted family man. He's married to Melanie, a soon-to-be Clinical Psychologist (just two weeks away!), and they share their Brooklyn home with three daughters - Lucia (13) and the mischievous twins Marnie and Cece (11) - and two furry companions, Honey and Minnie.

So, what's the secret to Sean's success? It's simple: a genuine desire to make a difference, a knack for finding the right message, and a healthy dose of humour to keep things interesting. He's proof that advertising can be both impactful and entertaining, and that a career in the industry can be as fulfilling as it is challenging.

DISCLAIMER: Emma asked Sean for an updated bio, so he threw some prompts into AI. The result makes him sound way better and way cheesier than he actually is.

Our conversation blended Sean’s experience as a dad and also his experience as a CEO & senior leader in the advertising industry. I actually worked with Sean in another life so it was a beautiful way to re-connect and to listen to his powerful reflections about being a working dad.

• How family trumps work – and how leaving loudly is one way that we can bring this to life.
• The change in thinking around WFH and the fallout that could happen from it.
• His leadership approach to managing client demands and parent’s caregiving needs.
• How he and his partner manage work and a family.
• The reflection of how traditional parenting roles can emerge without really thinking about it – and the work it takes to disrupt it.
• How he loves getting emails from Dads on his team saying that they can’t come to work because their child is unwell.
• Normalising working dads being parents and having needs.

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded by Works for Everyone, a business based in NZ and operating globally that supports working parents to stay in the leadership pipeline through coaching, workshops, and keynote speaking.

Your host, Emma Mclean, is a mother of three teenagers, an Executive Coach and the Founder of Works for Everyone. Following a successful 25-year career in corporate marketing, Emma launched her business in 2019 to put a care wrap around working parents at the hardest time in their career. She launched the NZ Part Time Power List in 2024 as she wanted to shine a light on individuals that are building their career through part time roles, rather than side stepping it. She is alumni of the 2021 NZ Leadership Programme and a proud Swiftie (a lifelong Taylor Swift fan).

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

In this episode, we interview Callum Williamson. Callum is a working father and General Manager at Conductive Education Taranaki who recently took time off to care for his one-year-old daughter, Molly-Maggie. During this period, he experienced the day-to-day demands of balancing parenting and professional responsibilities. Callum shares his perspective on the challenges and adjustments that come with being a dad in today’s working world.

Our conversation blended Callum’s experience as a working dad, as a leader of people who are also parents and as someone who actively participates in his wider community. One of those ways he contributes to his community is as a White Ribbon Ambassador and he is proud to serve his whānau and his community by supporting this vital kaupapa. White Ribbon reminds us that we all have a role to play in preventing violence, whether it’s challenging harmful behaviours, educating others about respectful relationships, or modelling healthy behaviours ourselves. It’s about stepping up to protect and care for those around us. Callum encourage everyone to take the White Ribbon Pledge and actively promote kindness, respect, and safety in their homes and communities. Let’s work together to make a difference.

• The importance of just being with our children.
• His experience of parental leave and the pressure he put on himself during this experience.
• The differences that Callum thinks Mums and Dads show when it comes to being a working parent.
• Why New Plymouth needs a better bus system to support working parents.
• How he manages work, family and community.
• The societal shift he would like to see that would put children at the centre of the system.

Resources Discussed

• White Ribbon. Learn more about how you can be involved at https://whiteribbon.org.nz

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded by Works for Everyone, a business based in NZ and operating globally that supports working parents to stay in the leadership pipeline through coaching, workshops, and keynote speaking.

Your host, Emma Mclean, is a mother of three teenagers, an Executive Coach and the Founder of Works for Everyone. Following a successful 25-year career in corporate marketing, Emma launched her business in 2019 to put a care wrap around working parents at the hardest time in their career. She launched the NZ Part Time Power List in 2024 as she wanted to shine a light on individuals that are building their career through part time roles, rather than side stepping it. She is alumni of the 2021 NZ Leadership Programme and a proud Swiftie (a lifelong Taylor Swift fan).

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/