Episodes

  • b-sides: word of the year

    b-sides: word of the year
    Jan 12 2025
    On this minisode we discuss the concept of having a "word of the year". In case you missed it, we’re speaking at the Alt Marketing School open day on Thursday 16th January. There are 14 speakers and we’re talking about tone of voice and why it’s important for your brand and your business. Click the pic for tickets.It’s an affiliate link so if you opt for the paid ticket for lifetime access to the talks, we get some cash which we’ll put towards the cost of making the podcast.See ya,Ben & MelFind our producer, theme composer and big kid Ant Henderson on LinkedIn 🐶🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and AudibleThe back catalogueReplays here…b-side LinkedIn revisited14 Handbags and Gladrags: Industry Awards ft Charles Commins and Fab Giovannetti13 You’re The Voice: Tone Of Voice ft Nick Parker, Rishi Dastidar and Amy Nolan12 Plug In Baby: Software ft Jo Shock and Jack Chambers-Ward11 Somebody Told Me: Referrals ft Bob Burg and Penni and Jo Pickering10 Paranoid Android: AI vs creativity ft Tom Albrighton and Molly Scanlan09 Shiny Happy People: Personal brands ft Lea Turner and Steve Folland08 Chasing Rainbows: Business planning ft. Alastair Thomson and Melanie Johnson07 A Design For Life: Creating for yourself with guest co-host Dan Nelken ft. Penny Brazier and The McKinneys06 I Bet You Look Good On The Timeline ft. Dave Harland and Jonathan Wilcock05 Flaming Lips: Public Speaking ft. Pascalle Bergmans, Becki Wilson and Nikki Pilkington04 A Little Respect: Client Relationships ft. Jodie Newman and Sophie Cross03 All Together Now: Communities ft. Mark Masters and Ant Henderson02 It’s Oh So Quiet: Finding Clients ft. John Lyons and Bonnie Harrington01 Fools Gold: Pricing your projects ft. Tom Garfield and Ange Lyons00 What’s The Story? Podcast origins This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    15 mins
  • b-sides: LinkedIn revisited

    b-sides: LinkedIn revisited
    Dec 30 2024
    Hello, Mel here,We’re rounding off the year with a b-side to revisit LinkedIn. The b-sides are shorter chats than a normal episode, so if you've got any topics you'd like us to chew over for 10-15 minutes, let us know.A brief, unimportant disclaimerTurns out I got my Paul brothers mixed up in this b-side. Apologies to any boxing fans. Though, true boxing fans probably don't know their Jake from their Logan either.Ben's meme banSince we covered all things LinkedIn in I Bet You Look Good On The Timeline, Ben's been more open-minded about the platform. He's even had some smash hit posts, though the experience left him “utterly underwhelmed”. He concedes there's that little dopamine hit from seeing red notifications. And being on the platform more has also led to him having more conversations, which is what it's all about of course. Ben's never had Facebook, so hasn't been exposed to the plethora of memes the rest of us have. I had to have a stern word to stop him tipping over into “what do you call a bread roll where you're from?” territory.Content pillars for the winBen mentioned how useful it was to have his “three words” from the personal branding episode. It’s helped him lean into LI a little bit more.One of his words was witty (coz he is) which gave him a bit more confidence to share posts he finds amusing. He's trying to be less formal and more off-the-cuff. I’m a fan. BUT Ben's actually let his LI presence slip since we recorded the b-side. Admittedly it’s the school holidays but SORT IT OUT, MCKINNEY *wags finger*Are you planning to get on LinkedIn more in 2025?We're here for you. Well, I am anyway. Ben might need to be dragged along with you.See you in 2025,Mel & BenFind our producer, theme composer and big kid Ant Henderson on LinkedIn 🐶🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and AudibleThe back catalogueReplays here…14 Handbags and Gladrags: Industry Awards ft Charles Commins and Fab Giovannetti13 You’re The Voice: Tone Of Voice ft Nick Parker, Rishi Dastidar and Amy Nolan12 Plug In Baby: Software ft Jo Shock and Jack Chambers-Ward11 Somebody Told Me: Referrals ft Bob Burg and Penni and Jo Pickering10 Paranoid Android: AI vs creativity ft Tom Albrighton and Molly Scanlan09 Shiny Happy People: Personal brands ft Lea Turner and Steve Folland08 Chasing Rainbows: Business planning ft. Alastair Thomson and Melanie Johnson07 A Design For Life: Creating for yourself with guest co-host Dan Nelken ft. Penny Brazier and The McKinneys06 I Bet You Look Good On The Timeline ft. Dave Harland and Jonathan Wilcock05 Flaming Lips: Public Speaking ft. Pascalle Bergmans, Becki Wilson and Nikki Pilkington04 A Little Respect: Client Relationships ft. Jodie Newman and Sophie Cross03 All Together Now: Communities ft. Mark Masters and Ant Henderson02 It’s Oh So Quiet: Finding Clients ft. John Lyons and Bonnie Harrington01 Fools Gold: Pricing your projects ft. Tom Garfield and Ange Lyons00 What’s The Story? Podcast origins This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    9 mins
  • 14 Handbags And Gladrags: Industry Awards

    14 Handbags And Gladrags: Industry Awards
    Dec 12 2024
    Hello, Award-Winning-Copywriter Mel and Non-Award-Entering Ben here.Today’s episode is called Handbags And Gladrags. It’s all about industry awards and whether they’re worth entering as an indie business owner. Spoiler: Mel says yes.Industry awards don’t always come with a great reputation. I (Ben) have definitely been a bit sniffy about them in the past. But it’s been a lovely thing to see the joy and confidence that winning first place in the Brand Copywriting Category at the recent Women In Marketing Awards has brought Mel, as well as the deserved attention she’s received because of it. She also took home a cool little award which looks like one of the crystals off The Crystal Maze. I always wanted to go on that show. Although I’d have probably got myself locked in in the Science zone.Anyway, back to the show. We talked about why you should put yourself forward for awards in your industry. And what to look out for when checking if awards are reputable. Mel also talked about how the glow of winning reaches well beyond the adrenaline of the awards night. As well as the obvious confidence boost, the validation and promotion from industry peers and the feedback from the judge (copywriting legend Vikki Ross) has led directly on to Mel winning more work.An award-winning podcasterNo, not one of us (yet). Although, on that, we did set ourselves a challenge of winning (or at least entering the indie business club podcast into) an award next year. Our voice note comes from expert producer and award-winning podcast host Charles Commins. Charles voicenoted us on his way to Football Supporters Association awards, where his pod It’s All Cobblers To Me was nominated for Best Club Podcast Of The Year. He spoke about how winning the award in 2021 gave him and his business that little extra bit of oomph.Fab Fab’s fabulous shout-outThis week’s Your Friend And Mine is Fab Giovanetti, headteacher at the Alt Marketing School and host of Cowork Crew in Cambridge. Fab also hosts her own podcast, The Alt Marketing pod (which Mel and I have recently guested on :). She’s an absolute force for good and I’m so pleased she’s a friend-of-the-show.Find us wherever you get your podcasts, and on the indie business club LinkedIn page.See ya,Mel & BenFind our producer, theme composer and tall Swift fan Ant Henderson on LinkedIn 🐶🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and AudibleThe back catalogueReplays here…13 You’re The Voice: Tone Of Voice ft Nick Parker, Rishi Dastidar and Amy Nolan12 Plug In Baby: Software ft Jo Shock and Jack Chambers-Ward11 Somebody Told Me: Referrals ft Bob Burg and Penni and Jo Pickering10 Paranoid Android: AI vs creativity ft Tom Albrighton and Molly Scanlan09 Shiny Happy People: Personal brands ft Lea Turner and Steve Folland08 Chasing Rainbows: Business planning ft. Alastair Thomson and Melanie Johnson07 A Design For Life: Creating for yourself with guest co-host Dan Nelken ft. Penny Brazier and The McKinneys06 I Bet You Look Good On The Timeline ft. Dave Harland and Jonathan Wilcock05 Flaming Lips: Public Speaking ft. Pascalle Bergmans, Becki Wilson and Nikki Pilkington04 A Little Respect: Client Relationships ft. Jodie Newman and Sophie Cross03 All Together Now: Communities ft. Mark Masters and Ant Henderson02 It’s Oh So Quiet: Finding Clients ft. John Lyons and Bonnie Harrington01 Fools Gold: Pricing your projects ft. Tom Garfield and Ange Lyons00 What’s The Story? Podcast origins This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    32 mins
  • 13 You're The Voice: tone of voice

    13 You're The Voice: tone of voice
    Nov 28 2024
    Today’s episode is called You’re The Voice, and we talk about what tone of voice is, why it’s important to you and your business, and how to get in touch with your own unique verbal identity. It’s a bit of a high-pressure episode because we both offer tone of voice work in our businesses (me as a freelancer, Ben as part of Copy Or Die, the copywriting agency he runs with friend of the show Dave Harland) and we kinda need to know what we’re talking about. Did we do ourselves justice? You decide. What is tone of voice?In a nutshell, tone of voice is the way you sound across all the places you use words. Your voice is the personality and the tone is how it’s adjusted depending on the context. You can fit in or stand out, depending on your brand. The famous buzzword bingo brands like Oatly, Innocent, and Liquid Death get a mention. But tone of voice isn’t just for “wacky” voices. It’s for immensely serious, professional, dare we say dull voices too. Why is it important?You’ve got a voice whether you like it or not, so we recommend that indie business owners and freelancers are aware of how they want to sound. The important thing is that you stay true to the brand/yourself. We talk a bit about how to get in touch with your own verbal identity including using “morning pages” (free-flow writing) to allow your voice to come out. For larger outfits, it’s important to have a guide that lets everyone “sing from the same hymn sheet”. A strong, consistent tone of voice can help your customers and wider network get to know, like, and trust you. Which, as we’ve covered in previous episodes, is the key to getting referrals and business leads. Voicenotes from voice peopleWe’re fortunate to have two fab voicenoters this time. Rishi Dastidar is a poet, tone of voice expert and brand copywriter who writes regularly for The Guardian. Nick Parker is an author and creator of Voicebox, a full tone of voice tool/system. He also has a short course that you might find useful when trying to spot which of his Eleven Primary Voices you identify with the most. You can also read more about tone of voice on Nick’s Substack Tone Knob. Voices in voicelandTo learn more about tone of voice, we suggest (as well as Rishi and Nick) you go follow people like…Vikki Ross (check out her bland book for what not to do)Jonathan Wilcock - SoWhatIf?Felicity Wild - Brand Language LabBethany Joy - Bethany’s beautiful websiteChris West - Strong LanguageYour Friend(s) And MineThis time we give a shout-out to long-term friend of the show, penfluencer, line tamer, and Freelancer Magazine’s number one doodler, Amy Nolan. Amy runs her illustration business inkypix4u and has a clipart shop where you can buy her doodles to use in your projects and presentations. Here’s one I bought earlier…but please don’t steal it coz it’s Amy’s IP.Find us wherever you get your podcasts, and on the indie business club LinkedIn page.See ya,Mel & BenFind our producer, theme composer and labrador Swiftie Ant Henderson on LinkedIn 🐶🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and Audible This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    44 mins
  • 12 Plug In Baby: Software

    12 Plug In Baby: Software
    Nov 14 2024

    There’s so much tech around nowadays, it’s hard to know where to start.

    Today’s episode is called Plug In Baby, and we talk about which software we use in our own indie businesses. Safe to say, we aren’t the techiest of bros. Tetchiest, more like.

    We’ve got a voicenote from exec VA and all-round processes legend Jo Shock, who talks us through what to consider when choosing your software. You can find Jo here, where she has a free Client Management Journey Checklist: Streamlines Virtual.

    In the episode, we cover all kinds of software from financial tools to streaming and client management stuff. Ultimately, we favour simple-to-use analogue tech without too many bells and whistles. Bring back music-only iPods!

    Ben’s software TL:DL just make friends with someone who knows how to use Canva 😏

    Your Friend And Mine

    This time we’re shouting out Jack Chambers-Ward. Jack works for Candour as Marketing and Partnerships Manager and hosts the Search With Candour podcast. He is also a published author and runs a very successful long-running pod called Sequelisers, all about movie sequels. Jack and Mel met at BrightonSEO, where Mel was dumbstruck to hear Jack listens to indie business club podcast. Our first listener in the wild!

    Jack lives in Norwich so Ben auto-likes him (kidding, he’s not a fan of ALL Norwich people... but he does like Jack). Maybe one day we’ll get to do a collab / crossover episode.

    Quick reminder, we’re both at Cowork Crew Cambridge tomorrow Friday 15th November. Ben’s speaking about how to be your own best customer.

    Mel’s at Cowork Crew Northampton next Thursday 21st November, speaking about how to find and use your unique voice.

    Annnd find us wherever you get your podcasts, and on the indie business club LinkedIn page.See ya,

    Mel & Ben

    🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and Audible



    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    40 mins
  • 11 Somebody Told Me: Referrals

    11 Somebody Told Me: Referrals
    Nov 3 2024
    We met up in Norwich this week (thanks, half term) to plan out our upcoming episodes. We’ve got topics up to #20, but we always welcome suggestions. Themes include tone of voice (suggested by Amy Nolan), software, and copywriting (it’s probably about time).Today’s episode is called Somebody Told Me, and we talk about how inbound referrals can boost your business. We picked this theme because both of us have benefitted massively from inbound leads. When you’re recommended by someone else, onboarding the client is often a far simpler process. We got our longest voicenote yet, but we know you’ll forgive us when you hear it’s from a legend in the field of referral marketing, Bob Burg. He of “know, like, trust” fame. You might remember us taking about the principle on the Personal Branding episode, Shiny Happy People. Bob is a Hall of Fame Keynote Speaker on referrals, relationship building, and genuine influence. He co-authored the international bestseller, “The Go-Giver” and co-founded The Go-Giver® Success Vault. Bob outlines the four main benefits of marketing your business based on inbound referrals, including the borrowed influence and trust you get from being the name people suggest when you’re not in the room. Your Friend(s) And MineYou say Kah-bo, I say Kay-bo. Let’s call the whole thing off. Not really. Also, it’s Kabbo so we were both wrong. The people (that’s right, it’s a duo) we feature as this episode’s Your Friend(s) And Mine are partners in both business and in life. They run Kabo Creative, a website and graphic design studio. It’s Penni and Jo Pickering! They also run The Marketing Meetup Northampton with Elisha Horrocks, and the couple also founded Cowork Crew Northampton. Busy busy! You can find Penni and Jo on LinkedIn and at coworkcrew.com, kabocreative.com and The Marketing Meetup Northampton. Ben and I are both speaking at Cowork Crew in the next few weeks as it happens…Ben’s at Cowork Crew Cambridge on Friday 15th November, speaking about how to be your own best customer. We’ll both be there so come and say hi. Mel’s at Cowork Crew Northampton on Thursday 21st November, speaking about how to find and use your unique voice. Friends of the show Molly Scanlan, Ange Lyons and Tom Garfield are involved with Cowork Crew, too. Molly is hosting the new South East London Cowork Crew, with Ange as the first speaker on Friday 22nd November. Tom is setting up Central London Cowork Crew, launching soon. Sign up for updates. We know ALL the best people 😎Find us wherever you get your podcasts, and on the indie business club LinkedIn page.See ya,Mel & Ben🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and AudibleThe back catalogue01 Fools Gold: Pricing your projects ft. Tom Garfield and Ange Lyons02 It’s Oh So Quiet: Finding Clients ft. John Lyons and Bonnie Harrington03 All Together Now: Communities ft. Mark Masters and Ant Henderson04 A Little Respect: Client Relationships ft. Jodie Newman and Sophie Cross05 Flaming Lips: Public Speaking ft. Pascalle Bergmans, Becki Wilson and Nikki Pilkington06 I Bet You Look Good On The Timeline ft. Dave Harland and Jonathan Wilcock07 A Design for Life: Creating for yourself with guest co-host Dan Nelken ft. Penny Brazier and The McKinneys08 Chasing Rainbows: Business planning ft. Alastair Thomson and Melanie Johnson09 Shiny Happy People: Personal brands ft Lea Turner and Steve Folland10 Paranoid Android: AI ft Tom Albrighton and Molly ScanlanFind our producer, theme composer and labrador Swiftie Ant Henderson on LinkedIn 🐶 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    34 mins
  • 10 Paranoid Android: AI

    10 Paranoid Android: AI
    Oct 17 2024
    Hi, Mel here,Today’s episode is called Paranoid Android, and it’s all about AI. Specifically, generative AI. Even more specifically, the large language model (LLM) kind. Think ChatGPT and the suchlike. This one's a re-record because my mic - despite being plugged in and switched on - wasn't picked up by the software. Even though the software said it was. I’m over it, though.Quick disclaimer...if you use AI, we aren't judging. We're just giving our views as (spoiler alert) humans who value human words.This episode includes a voicenote from one of the cleverest people we know, Tom Albrighton. Tom's author of multiple books including the most recent AI Can't Write, But You Can and you can find him at abccopywriting.com.Tom explains how the beauty of communication is that it's one human to another; something AI can never replicate. If nobody could be bothered to write it, why should we bother to read it?I mention some of the latest uses around AI I heard about when I spoke at BrightonSEO. Brands are now creating content with the specific intention of content being used to train up LLMs. The favoured method appears to be a hybrid "teammate" approach where brands use generative AI and have humans as the prompters and editors.We acknowledge we've been in an AI-less bubble, surrounded by people who are similarly as disenchanted with the whole prospect. Visiting a tech conference was an eye-opener for me regarding how widely used it is outside that bubble.Is it cheating to use gen-AI? Perhaps not if both parties agree to it first. We discuss the wider ethical considerations of using LLMs. For example, it's estimated to "cost" 500ml in water per 100 words ChatGPT generates. So the considerations go way beyond just contracts and disclosure.Some commenters have compared the cold, metallic churn of AI to how humans get inspired by other words and works of art/music. Ultimately we find this an incomplete, frankly insulting comparison. The human sum goes...inspiration + your skills + your life experience = unique creative outputWith AI, it's… input + prompt = unoriginal output We liken the creativity to wallpaper paste, to avoid offending fans of the colour beige and the flavour vanilla. Sorry, painters and decorators.For us, it comes down to a matter ofprofessional pridethe satisfaction of getting from A to B by earning it through mental effortquestionable ethics, on every levelicky vibesBut we asked the question, are we getting left behind? Will we look back and wish we'd embraced our robot overlords sooner? We're okay with going against the tide for now. Our advice to anyone who's concerned about the impact of AI...Start to differentiate what you offerStand out from the boring contentBecome essential to your clientsAsk yourself, “How am I different? How am I better?” There is so much you can do for your clients that AI just can't. So get out there and make it visible.We also highlight how important it is to have a strong verbal identity/tone of voice and subtly (shamelessly?) point out that we can both provide that service to clients. Sound guy (and sound guy) Ant finally gets his “personal brand” words we forgot to give him previously. And Ant’s band got a mention, too. Can you spot him?Your Friend And MineThis time we shout out a freelancer we respect for her short, funny and fact-sprinkled newsletter almost as much as we respect her for her ability to create low-carbon websites and speak at events. She’s also just a genuinely ace human we both have the honour of calling our friend. You can find Molly Scanlan on LinkedIn and at her website mollygetsitdone.com.Find us wherever you get your podcasts, and on the indie business club LinkedIn page.🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and AudibleThe back catalogue01 Fools Gold: Pricing your projects ft. Tom Garfield and Ange Lyons02 It’s Oh So Quiet: Finding Clients ft. John Lyons and Bonnie Harrington03 All Together Now: Communities ft. Mark Masters and Ant Henderson04 A Little Respect: Client Relationships ft. Jodie Newman and Sophie Cross05 Flaming Lips: Public Speaking ft. Pascalle Bergmans, Becki Wilson and Nikki Pilkington06 I Bet You Look Good On The Timeline ft. Dave Harland and Jonathan Wilcock07 A Design for Life: Creating for yourself with guest co-host Dan Nelken ft. Penny Brazier and The McKinneys08 Chasing Rainbows: Business planning ft. Alastair Thomson and Melanie Johnson09 Shiny Happy People: Personal brands ft Lea Turner and Steve FollandSee ya,Mel & BenFind our producer, theme composer and labrador Swiftie Ant Henderson on LinkedIn 🐶 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    39 mins
  • 09 Shiny Happy People: Personal Brands

    09 Shiny Happy People: Personal Brands
    Oct 3 2024
    Hallo, Ben here,Today’s episode is called Shiny Happy People, and it’s all about building a personal brand. Mel and I dig into what a personal brand actually is, and what having one might do for your business.Have you got a personal brand? Do you want one?? Do you need one???In this show, we’ll ask and answer all those questions and more. As a slight spoiler, Mel will say that we’ve all got a personal brand whether we like it or not, and I’ll try and get over the slightly icky feeling that leaning into my own personal brand leaves me with.Our voice note comes from a social media queen, Lea Turner, who tells us how she used her own personal brand to build a community that has changed her business and her life (P.S. Lea’s just launched her own podcast - here’s the Spotify link…).There’s a slight cringe moment where Mel and I try and describe our own and each other’s personal brands in three words (we’re both kinder to each other than we are to ourselves), and we finish the show with our famous Your Friend and Mine feature. This week it’s the inspirational Steve Folland from Being Freelance.Find us wherever you get your podcasts (or just listen by clicking the link above). And, as always, thanks for your support so far.The back catalogue01 Fools Gold: Pricing your projects ft. Tom Garfield and Ange Lyons02 It’s Oh So Quiet: Finding Clients ft. John Lyons and Bonnie Harrington03 All Together Now: Communities ft. Mark Masters and Ant Henderson04 A Little Respect: Client Relationships ft. Jodie Newman and Sophie Cross05 Flaming Lips: Public Speaking ft. Pascalle Bergmans, Becki Wilson and Nikki Pilkington06 I Bet You Look Good On The Timeline ft. Dave Harland and Jonathan Wilcock07 A Design for Life: Creating for yourself with guest co-host Dan Nelken ft. Penny Brazier and The McKinneys08 Chasing Rainbows: Business planning ft. Alastair Thomson and Melanie JohnsonFind, follow, and enjoy us…Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and Audibleand on the indie business club LinkedIn page.See ya,Mel & BenFind our producer, theme composer and tallboy Ant Henderson on LinkedIn. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit barfieldandmckinney.substack.com
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    46 mins