What if you could double your conversions just by asking smarter questions?

This week on SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains sits down with Chris Dayley, founder of Smart CRO and neuro-marketing expert, to dig deep into how psychology-based testing drives better conversions. Chris shares why most A/B tests fail, the real reason copycat tactics don’t work, and how you can optimize for outcomes—not just aesthetics.

You’ll learn how to run smarter experiments, structure content for maximum impact, and why removing content can outperform adding more. Whether you’re early-stage or scaling fast, this episode is packed with practical insights that will help you convert more, guess less, and scale smarter.

00:00 – Early-stage testing: Why slow tests are still valuable

02:03 – Why CRO is NOT about copy-paste tactics

02:32 – Aim for 10%+ test impact, not 1% tweaks

03:03 – AI in CRO: Use it, but don’t rely on it

04:10 – Meet Chris Dayley: Neuro-marketer & CRO expert

05:01 – What is neuro-marketing?

08:43 – The #1 CRO mistake: Building from assumptions

10:52 – Gut vs data: Why founders miss the mark

14:03 – Copycat optimization is a losing game

17:00 – B2B vs B2C behavioral differences

21:14 – Testing with low traffic? Here’s what to do

24:45 – Content hierarchy and CRO: What to keep, what to kill

30:55 – What makes a good test? Hint: not button colors

36:03 – CRO templates, myths, and shortcuts to avoid

44:45 – AI personalization, chatbots, and evolving expectations

51:07 – Why 1% gains don’t mean much for small companies

53:04 – Remove friction. Make conversion easier.

“If you only test fast, you’re testing wrong. Great data takes time.” — Chris Dayley

“The best CRO isn’t about flashy buttons. It’s about how people think.” — Chris Dayley

“You’re not Amazon. Stop copying their CRO strategy.” — Jeff Mains

“Conversion starts with one question: What do they really want right now?” — Chris Dayley

“A pretty site doesn’t pay the bills. One that converts does.” — Jeff Mains

“Your gut is not a marketing strategy. Data is.” — Chris Dayley

1. Don’t rush testing—data over speed. Even if your traffic is low, long-running A/B tests are better than guesswork.
2. Copying competitors is a trap. Their site may be under test, built on assumptions, or not even working for them.
3. Design doesn’t convert—psychology does. CRO should be rooted in how people think, not how sites look.
4. Small businesses shouldn’t chase 1% lifts. Focus on big wins (10%+) that actually move the needle.
5. Remove content to boost performance. Simpler, faster sites often outperform flashy designs.
6. Content hierarchy matters. Prioritize what users care about most—and test your assumptions ruthlessly.

Email - chris@smart-cro.com

Website - http://www.smart-cro.com/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdayley/

Small Fish, Big Pond –

What does it take to build a new tech category before the market is ready?

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, host Jeff Mains dives deep with Danny Tomsett, founder and CEO of UneeQ, the global leader in emotionally intelligent AI-powered digital humans. From early breakthroughs to hard pivots, Danny shares how his team navigated the rollercoaster of creating frontier tech, scaling sustainably, and keeping vision and culture alive through it all.

You'll hear the behind-the-scenes story of Nadia, a digital human project with IBM and the Australian Government, the challenge of market timing, and the power of narrowing focus for growth. If you’re building ahead of the curve, this is your playbook.

00:00 – The evolution of UneeQ’s business model

02:01 – Building a new tech category with AI-powered digital humans

06:27 – From digital games to emotionally intelligent avatars

10:39 – How digital humans transform customer experience

12:54 – Realism vs. relatability in AI avatars

16:07 – Building trust with humanized tech

16:31 – The hardest part of creating a new category

21:49 – Biggest lessons learned on the journey

23:46 – Keeping teams aligned through rapid innovation

27:04 – SaaS founders: Scale faster with Champion Leadership

28:14 – AI's real impact on jobs and customer service

31:31 – Emotional intelligence and sales simulations

34:28 – Outcome-based training with digital humans

35:22 – Growing pains and moments that almost broke the company

40:44 – Bootstrapping vs. raising capital in frontier tech

45:32 – Advice for building ahead of the market

48:00 – Product-market timing and finding the real problem

53:40 – What’s next in AI-human interaction?

“We weren’t just ahead of the curve—we were ahead of the market. That hurts.” — Danny Tomsett

“Emotionally intelligent digital humans aren’t the future. They’re already here—and they work.” — Danny Tomsett

“If the market doesn’t get it yet, your job isn’t just to build—it’s to educate.” — Jeff Mains

“Culture is your most scalable codebase.” — Danny Tomsett

“The problem you’re solving might not be the one they care about yet.” — Danny Tomsett

“Digital humans flip training from time-based to outcome-based. That’s real impact.” — Jeff Mains

1. Build for what’s real, not just what’s cool. Danny shares how hype distracted from traction and how focus created results.
2. You can't time the market perfectly—but you can pivot. The original platform model gave way to niche training simulations with real adoption.
3. Culture and systems scale better than code. When the team nearly burned out, Danny rebuilt the business on clarity and operational alignment.
4. Emotion matters in tech. Especially in sales training and customer experience—digital humans that feel human drive engagement.
5. Don't fall in love with the wrong problem. Sam Altman’s advice: go deeper to find the root need your product must solve.
6. Being early is painful—but survivable. Category creation requires stamina, education, and constant storytelling to shape the market.

Email - dannyt@uneeq.com

Website - http://www.uneeq.com/

Small Fish, Big Pond –

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains is joined by Warner Moore, founder of Gamma Force and cybersecurity strategist, to dive deep into why early-stage SaaS companies often overbuild security, waste money on compliance, and miss real threats. Warner reveals how to make cybersecurity a strategic advantage—without killing innovation.

From delaying HIPAA compliance for smarter growth to leveraging cloud infrastructure securely by default, Warner shares practical frameworks SaaS founders can use to balance risk, market demand, and growth. If you're building a health tech or B2B SaaS company and wondering when and how to invest in cybersecurity.

00:00 – Strategic security starts with executive mindset

01:32 – Why security is a business strategy, not just IT

03:06 – Risk management vs checkbox compliance

06:34 – Mistakes SaaS founders make with security

09:53 – Understanding real risk (Asset + Vulnerability + Threat)

11:16 – Leveraging cloud providers securely

12:12 – Security as a market differentiator

14:12 – Delaying HIPAA compliance with intentional design

17:11 – When to invest in security maturity

20:06 – Security budgeting for startups

23:24 – Signs you need a fractional CSO

26:57 – Health tech vs general SaaS: when security is mandatory

29:22 – Onboarding & deepfake defense tactics

32:27 – Process-based security (not just tech)

34:22 – Is 2FA enough? Low-cost, high-value protection

36:04 – Aligning security with company mission

38:27 – Upcoming security shifts (quantum, AI, deepfakes)

40:07 – Financial controls > fancy tools

41:00 – Access control as a universal security need

43:24 – Shadow IT and how to reduce SaaS sprawl

"If you don’t ask the hard questions early, you’ll overbuild and overspend on security that doesn’t move the business forward." – Warner Moore

"Security isn’t just a department. It’s a culture and a competitive advantage hiding in plain sight." – Jeff Mains

"Real risk requires three things: an asset, a vulnerability, and a threat. Miss one and it’s just noise." – Warner Moore

"Security done right doesn't slow you down—it speeds you up with confidence and alignment." – Warner Moore

"The most secure companies don’t just install tools—they build resilient business processes." – Warner Moore

"Before you throw money at compliance, ask: does this really serve our market or just create overhead?" – Warner Moore

1. Don’t Overbuild Early – Avoid unnecessary compliance if you’re not yet handling sensitive data. Be intentional.
2. Security Is Strategy – It's not an IT checklist. It's a leadership-level decision and business differentiator.
3. Risk = Asset + Vulnerability + Threat – If one is missing, it’s not a real risk. Focus on what matters.
4. Delay Expensive Compliance Smartly – You can structure your tech and market approach to delay heavy regulatory burdens.
5. Train Your Team for Real Threats – Deepfakes, phishing, and social engineering are rising threats; education is critical.
6. Use the Basics Well – MFA, encryption, access control—low-cost, high-value steps most companies still ignore.

Email - warner@gammaforce.io

Website - https://gammaforce.io/

Linkedin -