What if you could double your conversions just by asking smarter questions?

This week on SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains sits down with Chris Dayley, founder of Smart CRO and neuro-marketing expert, to dig deep into how psychology-based testing drives better conversions. Chris shares why most A/B tests fail, the real reason copycat tactics don’t work, and how you can optimize for outcomes—not just aesthetics.

You’ll learn how to run smarter experiments, structure content for maximum impact, and why removing content can outperform adding more. Whether you’re early-stage or scaling fast, this episode is packed with practical insights that will help you convert more, guess less, and scale smarter.

00:00 – Early-stage testing: Why slow tests are still valuable

02:03 – Why CRO is NOT about copy-paste tactics

02:32 – Aim for 10%+ test impact, not 1% tweaks

03:03 – AI in CRO: Use it, but don’t rely on it

04:10 – Meet Chris Dayley: Neuro-marketer & CRO expert

05:01 – What is neuro-marketing?

08:43 – The #1 CRO mistake: Building from assumptions

10:52 – Gut vs data: Why founders miss the mark

14:03 – Copycat optimization is a losing game

17:00 – B2B vs B2C behavioral differences

21:14 – Testing with low traffic? Here’s what to do

24:45 – Content hierarchy and CRO: What to keep, what to kill

30:55 – What makes a good test? Hint: not button colors

36:03 – CRO templates, myths, and shortcuts to avoid

44:45 – AI personalization, chatbots, and evolving expectations

51:07 – Why 1% gains don’t mean much for small companies

53:04 – Remove friction. Make conversion easier.

“If you only test fast, you’re testing wrong. Great data takes time.” — Chris Dayley

“The best CRO isn’t about flashy buttons. It’s about how people think.” — Chris Dayley

“You’re not Amazon. Stop copying their CRO strategy.” — Jeff Mains

“Conversion starts with one question: What do they really want right now?” — Chris Dayley

“A pretty site doesn’t pay the bills. One that converts does.” — Jeff Mains

“Your gut is not a marketing strategy. Data is.” — Chris Dayley

1. Don’t rush testing—data over speed. Even if your traffic is low, long-running A/B tests are better than guesswork.
2. Copying competitors is a trap. Their site may be under test, built on assumptions, or not even working for them.
3. Design doesn’t convert—psychology does. CRO should be rooted in how people think, not how sites look.
4. Small businesses shouldn’t chase 1% lifts. Focus on big wins (10%+) that actually move the needle.
5. Remove content to boost performance. Simpler, faster sites often outperform flashy designs.
6. Content hierarchy matters. Prioritize what users care about most—and test your assumptions ruthlessly.

Email - chris@smart-cro.com

Website - http://www.smart-cro.com/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdayley/

Small Fish, Big Pond –

What does it take to build a new tech category before the market is ready?

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, host Jeff Mains dives deep with Danny Tomsett, founder and CEO of UneeQ, the global leader in emotionally intelligent AI-powered digital humans. From early breakthroughs to hard pivots, Danny shares how his team navigated the rollercoaster of creating frontier tech, scaling sustainably, and keeping vision and culture alive through it all.

You'll hear the behind-the-scenes story of Nadia, a digital human project with IBM and the Australian Government, the challenge of market timing, and the power of narrowing focus for growth. If you’re building ahead of the curve, this is your playbook.

00:00 – The evolution of UneeQ’s business model

02:01 – Building a new tech category with AI-powered digital humans

06:27 – From digital games to emotionally intelligent avatars

10:39 – How digital humans transform customer experience

12:54 – Realism vs. relatability in AI avatars

16:07 – Building trust with humanized tech

16:31 – The hardest part of creating a new category

21:49 – Biggest lessons learned on the journey

23:46 – Keeping teams aligned through rapid innovation

27:04 – SaaS founders: Scale faster with Champion Leadership

28:14 – AI's real impact on jobs and customer service

31:31 – Emotional intelligence and sales simulations

34:28 – Outcome-based training with digital humans

35:22 – Growing pains and moments that almost broke the company

40:44 – Bootstrapping vs. raising capital in frontier tech

45:32 – Advice for building ahead of the market

48:00 – Product-market timing and finding the real problem

53:40 – What’s next in AI-human interaction?

“We weren’t just ahead of the curve—we were ahead of the market. That hurts.” — Danny Tomsett

“Emotionally intelligent digital humans aren’t the future. They’re already here—and they work.” — Danny Tomsett

“If the market doesn’t get it yet, your job isn’t just to build—it’s to educate.” — Jeff Mains

“Culture is your most scalable codebase.” — Danny Tomsett

“The problem you’re solving might not be the one they care about yet.” — Danny Tomsett

“Digital humans flip training from time-based to outcome-based. That’s real impact.” — Jeff Mains

1. Build for what’s real, not just what’s cool. Danny shares how hype distracted from traction and how focus created results.
2. You can't time the market perfectly—but you can pivot. The original platform model gave way to niche training simulations with real adoption.
3. Culture and systems scale better than code. When the team nearly burned out, Danny rebuilt the business on clarity and operational alignment.
4. Emotion matters in tech. Especially in sales training and customer experience—digital humans that feel human drive engagement.
5. Don't fall in love with the wrong problem. Sam Altman’s advice: go deeper to find the root need your product must solve.
6. Being early is painful—but survivable. Category creation requires stamina, education, and constant storytelling to shape the market.

Email - dannyt@uneeq.com

Website - http://www.uneeq.com/

Small Fish, Big Pond –

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains is joined by Warner Moore, founder of Gamma Force and cybersecurity strategist, to dive deep into why early-stage SaaS companies often overbuild security, waste money on compliance, and miss real threats. Warner reveals how to make cybersecurity a strategic advantage—without killing innovation.

From delaying HIPAA compliance for smarter growth to leveraging cloud infrastructure securely by default, Warner shares practical frameworks SaaS founders can use to balance risk, market demand, and growth. If you're building a health tech or B2B SaaS company and wondering when and how to invest in cybersecurity.

00:00 – Strategic security starts with executive mindset

01:32 – Why security is a business strategy, not just IT

03:06 – Risk management vs checkbox compliance

06:34 – Mistakes SaaS founders make with security

09:53 – Understanding real risk (Asset + Vulnerability + Threat)

11:16 – Leveraging cloud providers securely

12:12 – Security as a market differentiator

14:12 – Delaying HIPAA compliance with intentional design

17:11 – When to invest in security maturity

20:06 – Security budgeting for startups

23:24 – Signs you need a fractional CSO

26:57 – Health tech vs general SaaS: when security is mandatory

29:22 – Onboarding & deepfake defense tactics

32:27 – Process-based security (not just tech)

34:22 – Is 2FA enough? Low-cost, high-value protection

36:04 – Aligning security with company mission

38:27 – Upcoming security shifts (quantum, AI, deepfakes)

40:07 – Financial controls > fancy tools

41:00 – Access control as a universal security need

43:24 – Shadow IT and how to reduce SaaS sprawl

"If you don’t ask the hard questions early, you’ll overbuild and overspend on security that doesn’t move the business forward." – Warner Moore

"Security isn’t just a department. It’s a culture and a competitive advantage hiding in plain sight." – Jeff Mains

"Real risk requires three things: an asset, a vulnerability, and a threat. Miss one and it’s just noise." – Warner Moore

"Security done right doesn't slow you down—it speeds you up with confidence and alignment." – Warner Moore

"The most secure companies don’t just install tools—they build resilient business processes." – Warner Moore

"Before you throw money at compliance, ask: does this really serve our market or just create overhead?" – Warner Moore

1. Don’t Overbuild Early – Avoid unnecessary compliance if you’re not yet handling sensitive data. Be intentional.
2. Security Is Strategy – It's not an IT checklist. It's a leadership-level decision and business differentiator.
3. Risk = Asset + Vulnerability + Threat – If one is missing, it’s not a real risk. Focus on what matters.
4. Delay Expensive Compliance Smartly – You can structure your tech and market approach to delay heavy regulatory burdens.
5. Train Your Team for Real Threats – Deepfakes, phishing, and social engineering are rising threats; education is critical.
6. Use the Basics Well – MFA, encryption, access control—low-cost, high-value steps most companies still ignore.

Email - warner@gammaforce.io

Website - https://gammaforce.io/

Linkedin -

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, we dive deep with Lior Weinstein, a rare combination of fractional CTO and CRO, who helps $20M–$100M founder-led companies break through bottlenecks with simplicity, speed, and systems that scale.

We cover the future of fractional leadership, why “how” is often the wrong first question, how MVP thinkers often miss the real “V,” and how AI, no-code tools, and customer insight are rewriting the playbook for SaaS growth.

🔥 Topics include:

• MVP done right (focus on the "Viable")
• From “Buy” to “Build” economy and what it means for SaaS pricing
• The hidden cost of junior developers in the AI era
• Frameworks to unclog, de-risk, or scale your business
• How to avoid the trap of multi-channel marketing too early
• Why data > opinions every single time

00:00 – Start: Why “Why” beats “How”

02:10 – Welcome back to SaaS Fuel

04:12 – Meet Lior Weinstein: Fractional CTO/CRO

06:00 – Lessons from starting a business at 14

08:30 – Choosing relationships, not just revenue

10:45 – Scrappy mindset at $50M scale

14:00 – Systems that move the needle

17:00 – Common SaaS growth mistakes

20:00 – Data over opinions: marketing case studies

23:00 – Bridging founders and developers

26:00 – No-code revolution and commoditization of tech

29:00 – Rise of the AI-powered engineer

35:00 – Inflation of products and entrepreneurial access

38:00 – How AI is redefining copywriting and marketing

42:00 – The inevitable rise of fractional leadership

46:00 – Why companies don’t need full-time CTOs

50:00 – Using tech to de-risk, unclog, or scale

56:00 – Lior’s “Inevitable Growth” framework

“Most MVP thinkers focus on the M. I focus on the V — prove the value.” – Lior Weinstein

“AI isn’t just a tool anymore. It’s your teammate.” – Lior Weinstein

“If you're going multi-channel too early, you're scaling waste.” – Lior Weinstein

“We’re not using ‘fractional’ to describe the impact. We’re using it to describe the cost.” – Lior Weinstein

“Your product isn’t the differentiator anymore—your experience is.” – Lior Weinstein

“Junior and mid-level devs are becoming redundant. AI-powered seniors deliver 10x results.” – Lior Weinstein

Start With Why, Not How

Most technologists jump to execution. Great ones like Lior focus on why—the real problem behind the feature request.

The “V” in MVP Matters Most

An MVP isn’t just something minimal—it must be viable. Focus on delivering true value, not just a quick launch.

Don’t Scale Waste

Before hiring, ask: “Can AI or automation do this?” If yes, you might save months and thousands in costs.

Avoid Multi-Channel Too Early

Validate one channel deeply before expanding. Otherwise, you spread budget thin and dilute learning.

Measure Everything—Guess Nothing

If you don’t have a framework to test and measure, your growth isn’t inevitable—it’s luck.

Fractional Execs Can Outperform Full-Time

A great fractional CTO can deliver 100% of the outcome for a fraction of the cost—especially if they're AI-powered.

Email - lior@ctox.com

Website - https://www.cto.com/

Linkedin -

Why do deals stall even when your pipeline looks strong?

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains sits down with Mike Lander—former procurement director, dealmaker of over $500M in contracts, and now a sought-after negotiation strategist. Together, they unpack why focusing on buyer risk is the secret to closing more SaaS deals with less friction.

You’ll learn:

• How to build trust by focusing on the buyer’s world—not your pitch.
• Why most sales fail due to qualification, not presentation.
• How to work fewer opportunities but close more deals.
• When to walk away from RFPs—and why that’s a win.

00:00 – Why focusing on you kills trust with buyers

00:27 – Welcome to SaaS Fuel with Jeff Mains

01:15 – Your pipeline isn’t broken—your qualification might be

02:00 – The new sales equation: trust, credibility, risk reduction

03:27 – Guest intro: Mike Lander and $500M in deal experience

06:13 – Where discounting goes wrong

10:56 – Why buyers choose safe over best

14:03 – Risk perception and the value equation

16:18 – Myths salespeople believe about procurement

18:04 – “Procurement is where deals go to die” – and why that’s false

30:23 – Mike’s framework for working fewer, better deals

35:32 – The hidden dangers of RFPs

46:00 – Can AI replace salespeople? Where humans still matter

51:13 – Will AI negotiate against AI?

52:06 – Where to learn more about Mike

53:01 – What’s coming next on SaaS Fuel

“The more you focus on your deal, the less the buyer trusts you.” – Mike Lander

“Want to close more? Qualify better. The pipeline’s not broken—your filters are.” – Jeff Mains

“Risk trumps ROI in the buyer's mind. Reduce risk, increase value.” – Mike Lander

“Buyers don’t want persuasion. They want sleep.” – Jeff Mains

“Procurement isn’t the end of a deal—it’s the beginning of alignment.” – Mike Lander

“If AI handles the process, humans better handle the purpose.” – Jeff Mains

1. Trust isn't built on your product—it's built on understanding the buyer’s risk.
2. Qualification problems—not sales problems—are why most deals stall.
3. The best sellers help buyers sleep at night, not just buy faster.
4. Procurement isn't the enemy—it’s your hidden advantage if you understand their framework.
5. Saying “no” to bad-fit RFPs leads to higher win rates.
6. Even with AI in sales, human insight into motivation and value remains irreplaceable.

Email - mike@piscari.com

Website - https://piscari.com/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/

Small Fish, Big Pond – https://smallfishbigpond.com/ Use the promo code ‘SaaSFuel’

Champion Leadership Group – https://championleadership.com/

Website -

Want to scale smarter, not just faster? In this episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains sits down with Eran Friendinger, co-founder and CTO of Volantis, to unpack how predictive analytics and AI-powered signal optimization are transforming marketing performance and customer acquisition.

We explore:

• Why cost per lead is misleading
• How to identify high-quality users early
• Using predictive signals for retention and LTV
• The balance between culture and automation
• How to build fast-moving, data-led teams

Whether you’re a growth-stage SaaS founder or a data-curious marketer, this conversation will reshape how you think about scale, systems, and success in a fast-moving AI world.

00:00 - Why cost per qualified lead matters more than total cost

01:17 - Welcome to SaaS Fuel: The treasure map in your data

02:17 - Predictive marketing vs reactive metrics

03:45 - Meet Eren Friendinger: AI, signal optimization, and smarter leads

06:42 - From deep tech to startup growth: Eren’s founder journey

08:05 - Why traditional dashboards fall short

12:13 - Segmenting by value, not just traits

14:43 - Predicting lead quality on arrival

15:27 - Using AI for churn prevention and LTV

18:20 - Personalized targeting for different stages

20:17 - Signal optimization: what it is and why it matters

23:11 - Training ad networks with better feedback

26:00 - Champion Leadership: Scale without the grind

27:02 - Misleading metrics: cost per lead vs CAC

29:25 - Who this works best for (hint: high-volume SaaS)

31:02 - Rethinking attribution with predictive signals

34:02 - Volantis startup challenges + AI roadmap decisions

39:29 - Lessons from selling a startup in 12 months

42:25 - Culture vs features: what matters more

45:07 - Hiring adaptable, data-driven teams

47:22 - First step for data-driven founders

“We’re addicted to cost per lead, but the truth is, that metric lies. Focus on qualified leads if you actually care about growth.” – Eran Friendinger

“AI isn’t replacing marketers. It’s making the best ones unstoppable.” – Jeff Mains

“Stop asking ‘what happened’ and start asking ‘what’s about to happen.’ That’s the predictive mindset.” – Eran Friendinger

“You don’t need more dashboards. You need better signals.” – Jeff Mains

“Give your ad network better feedback, and it will give you better leads. It’s that simple.” – Eran Friendinger

1. Cost per lead is not the real metric – Focus on cost per qualified lead and lifetime value to optimize for scale, not vanity metrics.
2. Predictive data > historical data – SaaS growth requires real-time insights and forecasting, not just post-mortem reports.
3. AI + signal optimization = sharper targeting – Give better feedback to ad platforms and build feedback loops for stronger performance.
4. Marketing and product should align on data – The best SaaS teams know what high-value users look like and build around them.
5. Great culture is a multiplier – Adaptability, experimentation, and shared vision win even in high-tech environments.
6. Start with one high-leverage data insight – You don’t need a perfect model. Just one predictive insight can shift your whole strategy.

Email - eran@voyantis.ai

Website - http://voyantis.ai/

Linkedin -

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, host Jeff Mains sits down with Adam Coughlin — Co-Founder, CMO, and Managing Partner at York IE — to explore how SaaS founders can craft powerful messaging, align teams, and build scalable go-to-market strategies that don’t rely on buzzwords or bloated org charts.

From the power of customer funding and finding your minimum viable audience to avoiding messaging mistakes that kill momentum, Adam shares a blueprint for creating story-driven marketing that actually works. Whether you're an early-stage founder or scaling to Series B and beyond, this episode will change the way you think about go-to-market.

00:00 - Intro: Customer-funded growth and audience-first strategy

01:11 - Why company culture is your hidden growth lever

02:20 - Messaging isn’t enough — storytelling that resonates

04:10 - Meet Adam Kaplan from York IE

08:44 - Why founders default to jargon (and how to fix it)

13:02 - Building a message that drives GTM, sales, and fundraising

16:20 - Defining your Minimum Viable Audience

20:08 - Bootstrapping and customer funding as strategic growth

22:11 - The most common go-to-market mistake

24:35 - What to do before you build a sales team

28:03 - Adam’s book pick: Small Fish Big Pond

29:01 - Content that supports both SEO and sales

34:04 - The power of message consistency across platforms

37:41 - Leveraging founder brand without vanity

43:02 - Staying grounded as a founder in chaotic markets

45:03 - Why marketing is not just a department

“A confused mind doesn’t buy. Messaging must be simple, clear, and consistent.” – Adam Coughlin

“Your story isn’t just for marketing — it’s how you align your team and scale your vision.” – Adam Coughlin

“Customer-funded growth gives you optionality later — without giving up control early.” – Jeff Mains

“Founders need to stop mimicking competitors and start telling their own story.” – Adam Coughlin

“If your LinkedIn, blog, and sales team all sound different — you’ve already lost.” – Jeff Mains

“Marketing isn’t a department. It’s a strategic engine that drives every other function.” – Adam Coughlin

Start with your audience, not your product.

A clear understanding of your minimum viable audience is more powerful than shouting into the void.

Messaging is a team sport.

If every team member tells a different story, you confuse the market — and confused minds don’t buy.

Ditch the jargon.

Founders often invent new language, but if prospects don’t understand it, you lose them.

Customer funding beats investor pressure.

Bootstrap when you can — early traction through real customers unlocks smarter long-term growth.

Story drives go-to-market alignment.

A consistent story across sales, marketing, and fundraising is your secret weapon in crowded markets.

Your founder brand matters — if used right.

Done well, it builds trust and community. Done poorly, it becomes a vanity distraction.

Email - adam@york.ie

Website - http://york.ie/

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcoughlin/

Small Fish, Big Pond –

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains sits down with Uddhav Mehra and Harry Masters from The Inflection Group to unpack one of the most common mistakes early-stage SaaS founders make—hiring the wrong people too early. We explore why big-name hires from large enterprises often flop in scrappy startups, the power of hiring gritty operators over shiny resumes, and how to create a strategic, stage-appropriate hiring roadmap. If you’re looking to scale without bloating your team or burning your cash, this episode is packed with insights on founder-led sales, hiring for impact, and building elite go-to-market teams that actually work in real-world startup conditions.

00:00 – Don’t hire a VP of Sales yet? Here’s why

01:44 – Founders and enterprise sales: a smarter strategy

02:28 – Why rockstar execs fail in startups

03:57 – Hire for the stage, not the brand

05:10 – Meet Udhav Mehra and Harry Masters

08:05 – The “headhunter” problem most founders hate

11:00 – The #1 mistake founders make when hiring

14:30 – Startup size matters when evaluating candidates

18:26 – Mismatched expectations from candidates and founders

23:20 – Why asking for a “marketing person” is usually wrong

26:41 – Why startup success takes more time than expected

27:56 – How Inflection supports technical founders

33:14 – Role clarity evolves during interviews

35:00 – What’s your first GTM hire? It depends...

38:03 – Strategic vs. transactional hiring

40:29 – Adapting hiring strategy as you scale

42:51 – Why startup hires get years of experience in months

44:01 – The wrong mindset kills startup momentum

45:20 – One small change to hire smarter

48:39 – Multi-phase interviews that actually work

50:24 – The future of hiring in an AI-driven world

54:06 – Final advice for SaaS founders

"Hiring a VP of Sales before you have a sales org is like buying a steering wheel with no car." – Uddhav Mehra

"The best startup hires aren't polished — they're gritty." – Harry Masters

"Just because someone came from Google doesn’t mean they can build your GTM motion from scratch." – Jeff Mains

"We look for candidates who run toward the fire, not away from it." – Harry Masters

"Founders often want the pain. Most execs don’t." – Uddhav Mehra

"Marketing isn’t a person. It’s a function made of 10 roles. Know what you actually need." – Jeff Mains

Don't hire too senior too soon – Early-stage startups often mistake brand-name experience for startup grit. Hire for stage fit, not prestige.

Enterprise sales ≠ enterprise strategy – A better early move: founder-led sales + 1 top enterprise rep who’s hungry to win.

Start with goals, not job titles – Instead of saying “we need a VP of Sales,” define what outcomes you need and build a strategy around that.

Hiring evolves with your growth stage – What works at Series A won’t work at Series C. Update your hiring playbook accordingly.

Avoid "Frankenstein job descriptions" – Roles like “Marketing Person” often disguise unrealistic expectations across 5–6 different functions.

Great hiring is strategy, not speed – A structured, multi-step hiring process reduces misfires and builds long-term alignment.

Email - harry@theinflectiongroup.com

Website - https://www.theinflectiongroup.com/

Harry’s Linkedin